Ford Mustang Ecoboost Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is related to my earlier post regarding P0300, 301 and 303 codes.
Had a head gasket failure, and had it replaced and did a complete valve job and work on the cylinder head.
Last week, the same car a 2016 Ecoboost [83K miles on it] went 'ecoboom', while traveling along at 35 mph.
Allegedly, the engine blocks on 2015-17 Ecoboost Mustangs have a design/mfg. flaw that causes bearings to float, rattle, then spin causing catastrophic engine failure. My car is bone stock, and just spun a bearing. Initial clue in my case, a slight rattling noise at deceleration (25-35 mph and higher) especially if in Sport Mode.
Asked about this noise a couple of years ago, at a service visit, and the dealer told me it was "waste-gate noise" - 'not to worry.' Sage advice.
Of course, it's now out of warranty - and with Covid, there are fewer 'techs' available to work on the car... don't have the tools/facilities to do it myself. Looking at about $4K in total expenses after $2,700 to get the head gasket issue fixed.
Another interesting fact...
Ford no longer sells parts for the original block - no bearings, no cranks, seals - nothing. Instead they stock and sell a complete bottom end - i.e. short block for the 2.3L [that has the issues corrected] for $1,765.00 msrp.

Anybody else aware of this? Have you had similar issues?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
A VERY INTERESTING FACT...!!

$1765 for a new factory short block is reasonable.

What are the engine builders doing to their motors, that Ford isn't doing to theses new short blocks??

Any idea of what the builders are using for bearings, connecting rods, nuts and bolts, gaskets, etc. Are they reinforcing the 2.3 blocks or changing over to the 2.0 block??
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,363 Posts
What are the engine builders doing to their motors, that Ford isn't doing to theses new short blocks??
From Livernois:
Pro Series 2.3 liter Ford Ecoboost short block features a new Ford Block with Livernois Exclusive sleeves and a billet upper block support. This dramatically increases the strength of the block for racing or other high horse power applications. We also add upgraded pistons, rods and main studs to make this engine capable of handling up to 600hp!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coyote Chaser

·
Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
From Livernois:
Pro Series 2.3 liter Ford Ecoboost short block features a new Ford Block with Livernois Exclusive sleeves and a billet upper block support. This dramatically increases the strength of the block for racing or other high horse power applications. We also add upgraded pistons, rods and main studs to make this engine capable of handling up to 600hp!
Interesting! Sounds like they are using the 2.3 block with sleeves and some sort of upper block support!?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,363 Posts
Interesting! Sounds like they are using the 2.3 block with sleeves and some sort of upper block support!?
It's hell of a motor. Mine should be here shortly.
Shop | Livernois Motorsports & Engineering read the product information tab to get the whole story. Yes, it's pricey at 6K, but I believe it'll be worth it.
I know their products, we've used them in high performance applications and I trust them completely to stand behind their work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coyote Chaser

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
Funny how the majority of ecoboom seems to be happening at low speed or deceleration. Anyone ever log data from the moment of a low speed deceleration boom?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you gentlemen, and Squid in particular for the information. This car ran flawlessly for 3.5 years, 90+ miles per day in a wide range of operating environments from freeway, to streets to long trips 500+ miles or more.
Changed the oil and filter religiously every 3K miles - used Mobil 1.
Hopefully this block remedies any more issues - also had a head gasket failure shortly before the spun bearing that sidelined it this time.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,363 Posts
Thank you gentlemen, and Squid in particular for the information. This car ran flawlessly for 3.5 years, 90+ miles per day in a wide range of operating environments from freeway, to streets to long trips 500+ miles or more.
I beat the bejesus out of mine, ordered a new lower end just to be certain that I have a backup. Probably won't change until the end of the season this year, but it'll be there if I need it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
Allegedly, the engine blocks on 2015-17 Ecoboost Mustangs have a design/mfg. flaw that causes bearings to float, rattle, then spin causing catastrophic engine failure.
Source please? "Tuners" and "enthusiasts" have been lambasting this engine since day one, but no one ever posts actual data. There have been literally MILLIONS of these engines operating around the world for the last half a decade. It seems to me if there were a design flaw we would have data to back up such a claim.

IMHO, the modern 2.3L engine is a marvelous machine (300+ HP and 30+ MPG highway!), but it is not "overengineered" as many seem to think. Parts are built to meet a strength and durability standard, and no more. Why? Because making parts stronger and more durable than they need to be costs money. Further, getting 400+ HP out of a relatively inexpensive 4 cyl engine you expect to be a RELIABLE daily driver is not easy--there is only a single manufacturer worldwide offering such an engine in a production car and it's far from cheap--and contrary to what many tune vendors out there say in their marketing materials, I don't believe the 2.3L EcoBoost platform in stock form is capable of it. In the case of the 2015-2017 MY cars, Ford built an engine capable of producing 310 HP and 320 pound-feet of torque. With a tune from Ford Performance you can get a modest increase in power to levels which, incidentally, jibe closely with what you get from the 2018+ MY cars in stock form. THAT is an interesting data point for those looking to tune their cars. Is it possible to get a reliable 400+ HP 2.3L EcoBoost engine? Yes. BUT, you're going to have to put significant money into upgraded engine internals (see the post from Squid) to get it.


Another interesting fact...
Ford no longer sells parts for the original block - no bearings, no cranks, seals - nothing. Instead they stock and sell a complete bottom end - i.e. short block for the 2.3L [that has the issues corrected] for $1,765.00 msrp.
Unless you have actual data to the contrary, this is easily explained without the sinister implication. How much does the labor cost to pull apart an engine to get to a bearing? If you're going to pay for the labor to pull one apart to replace a single main bearing why wouldn't you replace them all? Same goes for the crank, if you're going to replace it you're going to replace all the bearings too. What does a field rebuild on a block like this cost? Would you rather have a block built by your local shop, or the factory?

In other words, there is probably not enough business in manufacturing, stocking, and selling individual components like these because it's a lot more cost effective--not to mention safer & more reliable--to simply buy a factory-built short block.

Rumors are easy to start and hard to kill...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,204 Posts
If I needed to be replacing rod or main bearings I wouldn't be going to Ford for them anyway. I would be purchasing a higher quality part from Clevite, King or Make.

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
This is related to my earlier post regarding P0300, 301 and 303 codes.
Had a head gasket failure, and had it replaced and did a complete valve job and work on the cylinder head.
Last week, the same car a 2016 Ecoboost [83K miles on it] went 'ecoboom', while traveling along at 35 mph.
Allegedly, the engine blocks on 2015-17 Ecoboost Mustangs have a design/mfg. flaw that causes bearings to float, rattle, then spin causing catastrophic engine failure. My car is bone stock, and just spun a bearing. Initial clue in my case, a slight rattling noise at deceleration (25-35 mph and higher) especially if in Sport Mode.
Asked about this noise a couple of years ago, at a service visit, and the dealer told me it was "waste-gate noise" - 'not to worry.' Sage advice.
Of course, it's now out of warranty - and with Covid, there are fewer 'techs' available to work on the car... don't have the tools/facilities to do it myself. Looking at about $4K in total expenses after $2,700 to get the head gasket issue fixed.
Another interesting fact...
Ford no longer sells parts for the original block - no bearings, no cranks, seals - nothing. Instead they stock and sell a complete bottom end - i.e. short block for the 2.3L [that has the issues corrected] for $1,765.00 msrp.

Anybody else aware of this? Have you had similar issues?
Ford Parts Connect shows all of the engine parts you said are not available.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
Not sure what I would do... If I purchased a new short block, I'd still have to "bullet proof" it with at least piston sleeves, forged connecting rods and racing bearings plus aftermarket nuts, bolts, gaskets, etc...
That would put me at around $3500 to $5000, which is close to a built block!
Kinda makes me want to use my existing block, crank, etc. if I can get parts!??
Makes my head hurt just thinking about it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
519 Posts
I'd go to Ford Parts Connect and buy a new 2.0 block for $638. Then, I'd buy better pistons, rings, rods, head gasket and studs and transfer over the rest of the parts from my 2.3.
That would be a good topic, "2.0 block vs 2.3 w/sleeves"!!?
Another topic I have never seen is a "bored out or stroked 2.0/2.3 Ecoboost motor!!?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,204 Posts
Another topic I have never seen is a "bored out or stroked 2.0/2.3 Ecoboost motor!!?
Well a 2.3 is a stroked 2.0. That being said I have seen stoker kits advertised that will take a 2.0/2.3 to 2.5. But that is a much more serious build and will likely require other supporting mods to get the most out of it, custom tuning for sure.

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
426 Posts
The infamous 2015 "design flaw" was started by Adam the douche because he didn't want to take the blame for his mistakes. After 6 years there has never been a shred of evidence of any design flaw and yet we have these idiots who still believe that BS.

When you ECU flash these engines you are taking responsibility for any engine failures that may occur after the fact. Blaming an engine defect on your ECU flashed engine failure is moronic.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top