AC dead...again.

Depressing either the low side (fitting at firewall side hose) or high side (fitting at radiator support side) will let you know if there is pressurized freon in the system with engine/compressor not running. There should always be approx 30/45 psi in the system when not operating, when operating the pressure difference is roughly 45 low side and 200 high side.

You have two choices to confirm compressor clutch operation. You can disconnect the two-wire connector located on top of the compressor and jump the wires to a ground and power on compressor side connector to engage the clutch in which you should see and hear it engage when power/ground is applied. There are a green and black wire at the compressor side of connector, green will be positive and black will be ground, you can jump with engine running or not running. With engine running you will see the clutch engage and spin with pulley and belt, with engine not running you will just see the front of clutch plate pull up against the pulley and hear it click against pulley from magnetic force applied when jumped.

Or you can fill with one can of freon and if the compressor and A/C system is operational the compressor will cycle on (front plate of pulley will snap/click on) and the pulley and front plate will rotate as one unit. The system holds 19 ounces of freon, and one can is only 12 ounces so it will hold approx. 1 1/2 cans of freon. One 12-ounce can will be enough to cause the compressor to engage and operate although it will likely cycle on/off rapidly since it is not completely full but will tell you if compressor and system is operational and just out of freon from leakage.

Hope this helps and makes sense.

BD

Buldawg76 said:

Gator
You made any headway on diagnosing the A/C failure leak issue on your stang yet.

BD

Click to expand...

Not yet. Imma be honest, that its just been so ridiculously hot out that the wife and I are currently sharing the RAV4. There's no other way. So I haven't really had a chance to run to the auto parts store for the dyed refrigerant. But I will try this evening.

So it seems like, IN ORDER for the compressor to run, it needs refrigerant, otherwise, you gotta jump like it you described. I did not know that. Do I have that right?

I did inspect around under the hood and checked every connection. The only connection that I found suspect was (I think) the lowside release valve? (check valve?), which had a bunch of white residue all over it, whereas I really didn't see that anywhere else. With no obvious sign of leak besides that, I am really thinking its the evaporator.

All signs point to a bad leak. If its the evaporator, I really feel I have no other recourse to bite the bullet and take it to the Ford dealer. I don't see myself taking the dash completely apart myself nor would I want to trust someone who doesn't have experience taking apart Ford dashes on a regular basis. I know there was a user @marzchi that did some diligent work to get Ford to pick up a large portion of her blown gasket. I wonder if I can badger them into similar? I mean, its the same friggin part (probably).

I'm really messed up about this, the car, which is detailed and perfect, and whose engine his humming STILL at 80K miles has basically become an unusable piece of hot garbage because of the extreme summer temps. I repeat something often to friends and family, and that is that essentially Florida was UNINHABITABLE until the advent of commercial AC.

That being said, here's my plan:
I'm going to see if I can finish troubleshooting for myself, then i'm going to call Ford Warranty, and then I'm going to try and coordinate with the lead mechanic at the dealer. I got his contact number through an acquaintance and sent him an exploratory text. He's on vacation but he should be back in the shop tomorrow.

All in all, this just sounds like its going to be expensive.

gatornek said:

Not yet. Imma be honest, that its just been so ridiculously hot out that the wife and I are currently sharing the RAV4. There's no other way. So I haven't really had a chance to run to the auto parts store for the dyed refrigerant. But I will try this evening.

So it seems like, IN ORDER for the compressor to run, it needs refrigerant, otherwise, you gotta jump like it you described. I did not know that. Do I have that right?

I did inspect around under the hood and checked every connection. The only connection that I found suspect was (I think) the lowside release valve? (check valve?), which had a bunch of white residue all over it, whereas I really didn't see that anywhere else. With no obvious sign of leak besides that, I am really thinking its the evaporator.

All signs point to a bad leak. If its the evaporator, I really feel I have no other recourse to bite the bullet and take it to the Ford dealer. I don't see myself taking the dash completely apart myself nor would I want to trust someone who doesn't have experience taking apart Ford dashes on a regular basis. I know there was a user @marzchi that did some diligent work to get Ford to pick up a large portion of her blown gasket. I wonder if I can badger them into similar? I mean, its the same friggin part (probably).

I'm really messed up about this, the car, which is detailed and perfect, and whose engine his humming STILL at 80K miles has basically become an unusable piece of hot garbage because of the extreme summer temps. I repeat something often to friends and family, and that is that essentially Florida was UNINHABITABLE until the advent of commercial AC.

That being said, here's my plan:
I'm going to see if I can finish troubleshooting for myself, then i'm going to call Ford Warranty, and then I'm going to try and coordinate with the lead mechanic at the dealer. I got his contact number through an acquaintance and sent him an exploratory text. He's on vacation but he should be back in the shop tomorrow.

All in all, this just sounds like its going to be expensive.

Click to expand...

Trust me I am well aware of the Florida heat since living there for over 25 years myself, it's not any cooler here in Alabama right now either.

Correct in order for the compressor clutch to engage and operate it must have pressure in the system to close the pressure switch, so the compressor turns on.

First check for any pressure in the system by depressing the low side Schrader valve (the one that has the white powder residue since it could be the issue and leak point) by depressing it with a small screwdriver or similar tool. If no pressure, then next easiest would be fill with some freon to test if the compressor turns on and you get some cool air from the vents. It will not be full cold since it will not be completely full but should be cooler than ambient air.

If it's the evaporator leaking, you may see some fog like vapor coming out the vents that would be the freon being blown out with the blower on high depending on just now fast/big the leak is in the evaporator.

If the above cause the compressor to turn on and you see no fog or vapor from the vents, then shut car off and listen at passenger's vent, under dash on passengers' side and under the hood near the A/C lines and condenser area in front of the radiator for any hissing sounds.

Yes, an evaporator is not a cheap or easy job on these new cars since they cram so much stuff behind the dash. My parts buddy at my local ford dealer sent me a few pics of a tech having to replace a HVAC blend door under the dash and he had the entire dash completely out of the car just to get to the blend door, pretty much that and more to replace the evaporator.

Let me know what you find and how it turns out.

BD

Update.
Work week was absolutely nuts. Had to carpool with my wife all week long. Also finally got some cloud cover today. So drove out to the auto parts store and bought an arctic freeze kit that came with its own UV light pen.


So it seems like its the condenser, or one of the O ring fittings at the condenser.

I'm all ear about for the next move now.

Obviously, this is something more manageable for any average Joe shop. Later this evening, I'll try to use the UV light to see if I can find exactly where the leak is and that should give me a much better indication of what needs to be fixed. I don't really feel the need to take this to the dealership if its not the compressor, or the evaporator.

Let me know what you guys think.

Well now you know the area to look at for the leak and with the dye/pen kit you should be able to locate the exact leak source. You should see a bright yellow stain as well as oily residue at the source of the leak. Being able to hear the hissing of freon leaking means it's a fast leak.

Both connections to the condenser are on the right side of it with one big diameter line at the top and a smaller one about 6 inches below that with o rings sealing them to the condenser. You can remove the radiator/cowl top cover and see the front side of the condenser pretty good and that would be my first step when looking for the dye stain. O rings do not generally blow out and leak that fast so more likely you got something thrown up off the road that damaged the tubes if the condenser and it finally burst from the high pressure it sees under operation (can be up to 350 psi in the Florida heat).

You can replace the condenser yourself pretty easily and then take car to a shop to have the system evacuated and filled which will save you labor costs since all you would be paying for is the evacuation and freon to refill system. You could also check and see if the shop will allow you to bring your own freon for them to use since it would be cheaper than what they will charge for their freon. You will need 2 of the 12-ounce cans, the system holds a total of 19 ounces so approx 1 1/2 cans.

I am including a link for Rockauto for the condenser and if you can wait a few days to get the part you can save a few bucks over a OEM unit. Since you live in Florida with all the salt air, I would recommend buying one of the added corrosion protection condensers they offer which is still cheaper than the OEM. The added corrosion ones are the lower 2 listed.

The lower 4 include the receiver/drier as it is an integral part of the condenser.

2016 FORD MUSTANG 2.3L L4 Turbocharged A/C Condenser | RockAuto

Let us know what you find.

BD

Buldawg76 said:

Well now you know the area to look at for the leak and with the dye/pen kit you should be able to locate the exact leak source. You should see a bright yellow stain as well as oily residue at the source of the leak. Being able to hear the hissing of freon leaking means it's a fast leak.

Both connections to the condenser are on the right side of it with one big diameter line at the top and a smaller one about 6 inches below that with o rings sealing them to the condenser. You can remove the radiator/cowl top cover and see the front side of the condenser pretty good and that would be my first step when looking for the dye stain. O rings do not generally blow out and leak that fast so more likely you got something thrown up off the road that damaged the tubes if the condenser and it finally burst from the high pressure it sees under operation (can be up to 350 psi in the Florida heat).

You can replace the condenser yourself pretty easily and then take car to a shop to have the system evacuated and filled which will save you labor costs since all you would be paying for is the evacuation and freon to refill system. You could also check and see if the shop will allow you to bring your own freon for them to use since it would be cheaper than what they will charge for their freon. You will need 2 of the 12-ounce cans, the system holds a total of 19 ounces so approx 1 1/2 cans.

I am including a link for Rockauto for the condenser and if you can wait a few days to get the part you can save a few bucks over a OEM unit. Since you live in Florida with all the salt air, I would recommend buying one of the added corrosion protection condensers they offer which is still cheaper than the OEM. The added corrosion ones are the lower 2 listed.

The lower 4 include the receiver/drier as it is an integral part of the condenser.

2016 FORD MUSTANG 2.3L L4 Turbocharged A/C Condenser | RockAuto

Let us know what you find.

BD

Click to expand...

The only problem I see is that my "race IC' is right in front of the condenser and its gonna take the brunt of any "flying debris", if it makes through the grill.

The "race IC" is also making it tough to see the leak. I might have to take off the nose to really see. All I can say is that it doesn't seem to be the fittings going in/out of the conenser, so its probably the condenser itself.

Today years old to find that a condenser can just "rupture" or "pop", as it seemed to be. Was unaware of the types of pressures that can accumulate, if the condenser is not properly cooling.

So yeah, it was a ridiculously hot day when it happened, the car was operating, and sitting, and parked, and did this over the course of an hour while running "errands" as they replaced the tires on my wifes car. When it happened, the car was again parked and sitting in the hot humidity, with no forward motion for cooling.

This video was enlightening.


@Coyote Chaser or anybody else...y'all got a procedure in the Ford manual for condenser replacement I can peruse? 😅

Forgot about you having the race IC in front of the condenser so not likely damage from road debris. Since the receiver/drier is part of the condenser and has desiccant material (think fine granules like sand in a bag) in it to adsorb any moisture that accumulates in system over time and will become fully saturated. This can and will cause the desiccant bag to rupture sending the sand into the condenser plugging it up, then with your car sitting idling with no air flow the pressure in the condenser/drier spikes to the point that it likely ruptures the receiver/drier housing or condenser tubes. The receiver/drier is on the left front corner of the condenser so you may be able to see it with the rad/cowl cover off.

Gator
I have thought some more on your A/C issue and about steps you need to do to insure a proper repair. Not ever having the condenser or radiator out if a 15-20 mustang this is just based on past experience from older cars.

1. If it is the condenser that is the leak source you may be able to remove it by removing the upper radiator mounting brackets and lifting the radiator up enough to free it from the bottom mounting locators so you can move it toward the engine a few inches to gain room to get at the condenser mounting points after you have removed the 2 lines from the right side of the condenser. This may give you room to lift the condenser straight up and out without having to remove the front clip or race IC.

2. Once you have the condenser out you need to check it to see if the desiccant bag in the drier tank has ruptured by blowing compressed air thru the line connections to see if any sand like debris comes out from inside, blow from both directions because if the desiccant bag has ruptured then the entire system will need flushed out to remove all of the desiccant that has spread thru the entire system. There is a special tool and flush that is used to do this with so not something you can really do at home short of just replacing every line and component.

3. If you find the desiccant bag has ruptured you will most likely need to replace the compressor along with the condenser since it's almost impossible to get the desiccant completely out of it. There may be a means of doing this now that I am not aware of so that compressor replacement is not required.

4. If you find no desiccant debris in the condenser and just a leak source then it's just replacing the condenser and evacuate/recharge the system and you should be good to go.

Hope this helps.

BD

Buldawg76 said:

Gator
I have thought some more on your A/C issue and about steps you need to do to insure a proper repair. Not ever having the condenser or radiator out if a 15-20 mustang this is just based on past experience from older cars.

1. If it is the condenser that is the leak source you may be able to remove it by removing the upper radiator mounting brackets and lifting the radiator up enough to free it from the bottom mounting locators so you can move it toward the engine a few inches to gain room to get at the condenser mounting points after you have removed the 2 lines from the right side of the condenser. This may give you room to lift the condenser straight up and out without having to remove the front clip or race IC.

2. Once you have the condenser out you need to check it to see if the desiccant bag in the drier tank has ruptured by blowing compressed air thru the line connections to see if any sand like debris comes out from inside, blow from both directions because if the desiccant bag has ruptured then the entire system will need flushed out to remove all of the desiccant that has spread thru the entire system. There is a special tool and flush that is used to do this with so not something you can really do at home short of just replacing every line and component.

3. If you find the desiccant bag has ruptured you will most likely need to replace the compressor along with the condenser since it's almost impossible to get the desiccant completely out of it. There may be a means of doing this now that I am not aware of so that compressor replacement is not required.

4. If you find no desiccant debris in the condenser and just a leak source then it's just replacing the condenser and evacuate/recharge the system and you should be good to go.

Hope this helps.

BD

Click to expand...

Thank you so much BD!

Absolutely it helps!

I don't have a garage, only a carport. Its pouring rain today, which makes the carport no fun. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to wait until close to sunset to be able to get a good look, since you need darkness for the UV. Throw in my upcoming work week and the 2 year old, and its something I'm going to have to "manage" to get done. To be honest, I'd MUCH RATHER take off and replace the condenser myself. Why? Because NO ONE knows how to properly take off the nose on a 2015-2017 and its fragile bumper clips. But I'm also not averse to finding someone that can do it quickly, at a good price, and I know that it will get done right. We'll see. But for sure, I want to do MY OWN troubleshooting and know exactly whats going on....because that's the only way you can truly get a good quote from a respected tech. If I just cold call someone to tell them my "AC is broke", well that's a blank check. But if I give them a specific problem, that's a specific quote for labor hours.

I will keep this thread posted with any updates.

So happy that its not the evaporator. Because honestly, that would be twice in 5 years. That would have given me MAJOR second thoughts about the viability of that part moving forward. But after watching the above referenced youtube video, and now understanding a little bit better the pressures involved when the AC is not getting what it needs to function correctly, I can see much better what happend. That was a "feels like 100 degree" day that day, with all the humidity. I was essentially puttering around Miami, never really giving the car a chance to rest and cool off by parking and turning it off. So no doubt the condenser was soaked in engine heat. No doubt.

gatornek said:

Thank you so much BD!

Absolutely it helps!

I don't have a garage, only a carport. Its pouring rain today, which makes the carport no fun. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to wait until close to sunset to be able to get a good look, since you need darkness for the UV. Throw in my upcoming work week and the 2 year old, and its something I'm going to have to "manage" to get done. To be honest, I'd MUCH RATHER take off and replace the condenser myself. Why? Because NO ONE knows how to properly take off the nose on a 2015-2017 and its fragile bumper clips. But I'm also not averse to finding someone that can do it quickly, at a good price, and I know that it will get done right. We'll see. But for sure, I want to do MY OWN troubleshooting and know exactly whats going on....because that's the only way you can truly get a good quote from a respected tech. If I just cold call someone to tell them my "AC is broke", well that's a blank check. But if I give them a specific problem, that's a specific quote for labor hours.

I will keep this thread posted with any updates.

So happy that its not the evaporator. Because honestly, that would be twice in 5 years. That would have given me MAJOR second thoughts about the viability of that part moving forward. But after watching the above referenced youtube video, and now understanding a little bit better the pressures involved when the AC is not getting what it needs to function correctly, I can see much better what happend. That was a "feels like 100 degree" day that day, with all the humidity. I was essentially puttering around Miami, never really giving the car a chance to rest and cool off by parking and turning it off. So no doubt the condenser was soaked in engine heat. No doubt.

Click to expand...

Yes, only having a carport makes it difficult to work in bad weather for sure. As far as the UV dye only being able to be seen in dark conditions that is not necessarily true since it should be a bright yellow color and as fast of a leak as you have it should be very apparent in daylight as well, if it was a very slow leak is where darkness and the UV light will help see it better. I will just about bet if you remove the front cowl cover you will see a very apparent staining from the leak source even in daylight.

I agree it's much better to know the exact issue when getting a quote for repairs than just a broad statement of this does not work. The front clips on the 15-17s are definitely fragile in the fender to nose clip area since when I helped John install his IC one side of his front clip broke one of the locking tabs and we had to super glue it back together and it did not really work that well, 18+ are so much improved in that area. It's sad but true that most shops today don't have techs with the same attitudes that I had when I was in the field in that I treated every customer car as if it was my car that I was working on and had pride in my work and the fact that my customers would ask for me by name when bringing their cars in for repairs. In a lot of repairs, they were literally putting their life in my hands trusting that I would fix the car correctly the first time I.E. brake work, engine performance, transmission or anything that could cause them to become involved in an accident due to poor quality or improper repairs.

If you cannot get the condenser replaced yourself, I hope you can find a reputable shop that will do the job at a fair price and takes pride in their work. There are still some out there if you look around, one tip is to visit the shop and see just how clean and organized the techs work areas are and if they are using fender covers and other means of protecting the work being performed on the cars. I know I tried to keep my work areas as clean as possible and used covers and protection to not do more damage to my customers cars than what they came in with.

Good luck and for sure keep us updated.

BD

Ford Warranty would've laughed in my face when they would've finally diagnosed the problem. Not evap. But condenser. And the reason why?

My race IC






The first pic is the passenger side of the IC, against the condenser, taken from the front.

The second pic is the same area on the backside of the condenser.


That being said, I'm pretty sure I know EXACTLY what happened. I've been having problems as of late with my hotside couplers. This last time around that one of them popped, I cinched them back on so tight, that I'm positive that hotside pipe is PULLING hard on the IC back against the condenser. When I go to replace the condenser, I need to reposition the IC with the hotside pipe better so there's more slack.