AC dead...again.

4762 Views 64 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Buldawg76, 22 d ago

gatornek

Discussion Starter · 11 mo ago

When it rains, it pours.

Was running errands with both the wife and the kid in the Mustang, while she was getting a new set of tires. Hot day out. Upon return to the tire center, I left the wife and the kid in the car with the engine running and the AC on. When I got back inside the car, the AC was no longer cool. The wife said she touched nothing, and that all of a sudden it went from cold to blah, just like that. Not good. Went outside, popped the hood, put a screwdriver the high-pressure release, and nothing. Not good. Seems like I lost all refrigerant, just like that.

I obviously have a bad leak somewhere.

The AC evaporator was replaced under warranty many years back. If it turns out to be that PIECE again, do I have any recourse for them to fix it "under warranty" again, or no?

Also, what's my best bet for a bit better self diagnosis? I've heard about some dye that you can get to spray into the system, to see where the leak is coming from? Would you all recommend that? Y'all know what to ask for at the auto parts store?

Thanks for the help in advance.

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MD18EcoStang

· #21 · 11 mo ago

Oops! Well, at least you can figure out what to do to prevent it from happening again.

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Buldawg76

· #22 · 11 mo ago

Well, that is definitely going to cause the leaky condenser, I thought those race ICs had upper mounting tabs that fasten to the core support that should prevent that type of contact from occurring. Bummer for sure but at least you know what part you need to fix it. Also, its good the drier did not rupture and send desiccant thru the entire system.

Didn't need the black light for that one huh.

That is also one of the reasons I went with the street IC over a race IC is to not have to worry about any contact between those components from ever occurring.

Glad you got it diagnosed and parts on the way.

BD

gatornek

Discussion Starter · #23 · 11 mo ago (Edited)

MD18EcoStang said:
Oops! Well, at least you can figure out what to do to prevent it from happening again.

No doubt. I feel a lot better about the situation in comparison to my initial gut feeling of the evaporator bugging out on me. That would've given me reservations about the viability of the AC moving forward. There is a certain solace in knowing it was self inflicted and not an inherent defect in the system.

Buldawg76 said:
I thought those race ICs had upper mounting tabs that fasten to the core support

The cPE uses brackets that attach to the bumper support instead.

Reactions: 2

Buldawg76

· #24 · 11 mo ago

Sounds like you will need to do some adjustments of the IC to insure it cannot make contact with any other parts during the condenser replacement.

BD

gatornek

Discussion Starter · #25 · 11 mo ago

Condenser showed up today. I absolutely love rock auto. Now I just gotta schedule some time to get that front end nose situation straightened out.

speaking of “straight” I notice the condenser has a slight concave curve to it. Slight. But there. Is that by design or am I gonna have to straighten this out a bit so it goes flush?

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Buldawg76

· #26 · 11 mo ago

I am not sure about the curve in the condenser being as designed or if it may have been done in shipping, I would wait till you get the original one out and compare the two to see if it was designed that way.

Does the box appear to have been damaged or warped which could have caused the curving. Or was the packing designed with the curve so as to keep it from being damaged during shipping.

BD

Kwiski

· #27 · 11 mo ago

As long as it mounts the same. I wouldn't worry about a slight curve to it. Don't think it will impede it's designed performance.

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gatornek

Discussion Starter · #28 · 10 mo ago

That wasn't too bad. New condenser is in.

Still gotta couple hours before sunset. Plenty of time to button it back up.

Last question: Is there any type of oil or grease I should apply to the condenser in/out fittings in order to make a good seal? I don't plan on charging it myself, so I wonder if it even matters. Could the AC shop that I take it to address that, by simply letting them know that there is zero charge in the system?? All advice welcome so i can hopefully finally wrap this up.

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Buldawg76

· #29 · 10 mo ago

Does it use gaskets or O rings at the connection points. If O rings they should be lubed with a few drops of PAG oil used for R134 systems but if you do not have that a few drops of tranny fluid will also work or silicone oil. You just want some slickness to allow them to slide into the seat without cutting or rolling from friction. If gaskets, then assemble dry.

The process of evacuating the air/moisture from system will also remove most of the PAG oil in the system so the shop should also add the correct amount of oil back into the system before charging with freon to the correct amount.

BD

gatornek

Discussion Starter · #30 · 10 mo ago

Interesting enough, it seemed like the "rubber oring/gasket part" is already "set" inside the connector. I hope that makes sense. The connector is essentially a huge metal "plunger", that seats into a big open hole on the condenser itself. At the tip of the connector is the small opening. I wish I would've taken more pictures, but picture taking during work is not really my bag.

All in all, not a difficult job at all. The nose didn't need to come off, as i was able to make enough space with my race IC there. Probably the biggest pain in the butt, was the metal canister on the right hand side. It needs to clear the front frame, in order to pull out, and that was its biggest obstacle.

To make life easier:

I pumped out all the coolant out of the overflow tank, so I could get set that to the side.
I removed the air intake for more space in front of the engine.
Lastly, I had to pop the radiator/fan/trannycooler "assembly" (its pretty much all stuck together...lol) out of the support mounts underneath in order to push it far enough back to get the condenser out.

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Buldawg76

· #31 · 10 mo ago

Ok then as long as you used some ease of assy in putting the connection together so as to not cause damage to the O ring/gasket then all should be good.

I was hoping you could make room to get it in/out by lifting rad/fan/cooler up out of lower mounts to make space to get condenser out. I knew the right side with drier tank would be the deciding factor on whether it would come out without removing the nose or not since that would the widest cross section.

So now it just getting it evacuated and charged up to have cold air again.

BD

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gatornek

Discussion Starter · #32 · 10 mo ago

You know..I gotta be honest and say, that looking at some of these "recharge your AC system videos" online, it doesn't seem that difficult AT ALL. By far, the most critical thing is having the manifold gauge set and the vaccuum pump. Those kits go for roughly the same what a recharge would cost at any auto shop. And at least I'd have the kit handy if I ever had to do my wife's car, or mine again.

Considering I'm worried about the condenser connections (ONLY because I've never done it or even had it demo'd in front of me outside of videos) more than really anything else, and its ability to hold a vacuum, I wonder if it just makes sense to do this on my own?

Am I seeing these videos correctly? Is it simply drawing a -30inhg vaccuum for 30 minutes+ and then simply adding the required amount of regrigerant and oil?? Seems easy enough. Am I being foolish for thinking I could knock this out too?

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Buldawg76

· #33 · 10 mo ago

gatornek said:
You know..I gotta be honest and say, that looking at some of these "recharge your AC system videos" online, it doesn't seem that difficult AT ALL. By far, the most critical thing is having the manifold gauge set and the vaccuum pump. Those kits go for roughly the same what a recharge would cost at any auto shop. And at least I'd have the kit handy if I ever had to do my wife's car, or mine again.

Considering I'm worried about the condenser connections (ONLY because I've never done it or even had it demo'd in front of me outside of videos) more than really anything else, and its ability to hold a vacuum, I wonder if it just makes sense to do this on my own?

Am I seeing these videos correctly? Is it simply drawing a -30inhg vaccuum for 30 minutes+ and then simply adding the required amount of refrigerant and oil?? Seems easy enough. Am I being foolish for thinking I could knock this out too?

Nope you are not crazy if you are going to pay roughly the same to have a shop evacuate and fill it as what you can get a gauge set and vacuum pump, freon/PAG oil for and do it yourself. It would be a plus down the road if/when you have another leak repair that's needs done.

You are correct in that you just pull a vacuum of as close to -30imhg as possible, you will never get to -30 inhg and more likely 28 inhg at best. Open both the low and high side valves on gauge set to evacuate. The time needed to evacuate is more based on how long the system was open to the environment and the humidity level at the time it was open. If you did the condenser replacement in one complete process so it was only open for the time it took swap out the parts then 30 minutes to an hour should be good, if open for 24+ hours then you need several hours on the vacuum pump to get all the moisture out.

Then close all valves on the manifold gauge and shut the pump off and let sit for 30 minute to insure it holds a vacuum, if it does your ready to add PAG R134 oil to system. Use a measuring cup to fill to correct amount and disconnect the hose from the vacuum pump and put into the bottom of measuring cup of oil. Very slowly barely open the low side valve to allow the oil to be sucked into the hose and close valve right before it will start to suck in air when all oil is removed from cup. They may even make cans of the PAG oil that you can hook directly to the hose with the adapter used to attach to the cans or freon, been awhile since I have had to work on an A/C system so not sure what is available today. Then reconnect to hose to freon can adapter and fill with correct amount of freon thru low side hose only. You can open low side fully to start fill before you start the engine and turn the A/C to on so there is enough pressure in the system to allow the compressor to engage the clutch and that will draw the rest of the freon onto the A/C.

Thats pretty much all there is to evacuating and recharging the system.

Let us know what you end up doing.

BD

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gatornek

Discussion Starter · #34 · 10 mo ago

Buldawg76 said:
Nope you are not crazy if you are going to pay roughly the same to have a shop evacuate and fill it as what you can get a gauge set and vacuum pump, freon/PAG oil for and do it yourself. It would be a plus down the road if/when you have another leak repair that's needs done.

You are correct in that you just pull a vacuum of as close to -30imhg as possible, you will never get to -30 inhg and more likely 28 inhg at best. Open both the low and high side valves on gauge set to evacuate. The time needed to evacuate is more based on how long the system was open to the environment and the humidity level at the time it was open. If you did the condenser replacement in one complete process so it was only open for the time it took swap out the parts then 30 minutes to an hour should be good, if open for 24+ hours then you need several hours on the vacuum pump to get all the moisture out.

Then close all valves on the manifold gauge and shut the pump off and let sit for 30 minute to insure it holds a vacuum, if it does your ready to add PAG R134 oil to system. Use a measuring cup to fill to correct amount and disconnect the hose from the vacuum pump and put into the bottom of measuring cup of oil. Very slowly barely open the low side valve to allow the oil to be sucked into the hose and close valve right before it will start to suck in air when all oil is removed from cup. They may even make cans of the PAG oil that you can hook directly to the hose with the adapter used to attach to the cans or freon, been awhile since I have had to work on an A/C system so not sure what is available today. Then reconnect to hose to freon can adapter and fill with correct amount of freon thru low side hose only. You can open low side fully to start fill before you start the engine and turn the A/C to on so there is enough pressure in the system to allow the compressor to engage the clutch and that will draw the rest of the freon onto the A/C.

Thats pretty much all there is to evacuating and recharging the system.

Let us know what you end up doing.

BD

You're the man BD. My interest is piqued.

Honestly, it seems like the most expensive part of this is the vacuum pump itself. Do I need to concern myself with HP or CFM? Would just about any "well enough rated & reviewed" vacuum pump on amazon do? I'd like to go with something a little more sturdy, but the pump at Harbor Freight is $150 itself, while most of the "kits" (which included gauges, carry bag, and other knick-knacks) run about that much.

Here is what I'm looking at Amazon, and it gets here tomorrow, which is good. Should be able to do the trick.
Amazon.com

gatornek

Discussion Starter · #35 · 10 mo ago

So the kit is on order and should hopefully be here tomorrow, PLUS I ordered the following from O'Reilly

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Buldawg76

· #36 · 10 mo ago (Edited)

You should be all set with the kit off amazon and the freon and oil from Orielly's, just make sure the oil states for use with R134 systems.

The difference in HP and CFM of vacuum pumps just refers to how fast they can pull the system down to a vacuum. The more HP/CFM the faster the vacuum. The kit you ordered will be perfect for home use and gives you everything needed to do the job sans the Freon and PAG oil for the system.

I would check and see if Oriellys has a pressurized can of PAG oil like the freon that is close to the amount required for your system. I checked on mine and it does not specify the amount of PAG oil just the ford spec for what oil to use, should not need more than 3 to 4 ounces at most. I found three linked below, but they have different viscosities of 46, 100, 150 and I am not sure which ford uses. I have a call into my buddy at ford to see if he knows but he is at lunch so I will get back to you when he calls me back.

Interdynamics Certified A/C Pro PAG Oil PC1V | O'Reilly Auto Parts (oreillyauto.com)
Interdynamics Certified A/C Pro PAG Oil PC2V | O'Reilly Auto Parts (oreillyauto.com)
Interdynamics Certified A/C Pro PAG Oil PC3V | O'Reilly Auto Parts (oreillyauto.com)

Just remember to close both gauge valves before shutting off vacuum pump and also close the adapter in the kit that threads onto the oil/freon cans so it seals off when changing from oil can to freon cans, so you do not lose any oil/freon in middle fill hose itself. The can adapter will puncture the cans and then you open and close to seal off the hose/can when changing or storing a partially used can of freon.

BD

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Buldawg76

· #37 · 10 mo ago

gatornek said:
So the kit is on order and should hopefully be here tomorrow, PLUS I ordered the following from O'Reilly

View attachment 42962

Just talked to buddy at ford and our cars use the 46 viscosity oil so that would be the first link of the 3 I included above. The PAG oil PC1V link

BD

gatornek

Discussion Starter · #38 · 10 mo ago

Buldawg76 said:
Just talked to buddy at ford and our cars use the 46 viscosity oil so that would be the first link of the 3 I included above. The PAG oil PC1V link

BD

I basically bought the only pag oil that met this standard stamped on my hood

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The motorcraft should be fine, no?

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Buldawg76

· #39 · 10 mo ago (Edited)

gatornek said:
I basically bought the only pag oil that met this standard stamped on my hood

View attachment 42973

The motorcraft should be fine, no?

Yea the motor craft will be fine, I was just thinking the pressurized cans would make it easier to add to the system versus out of the bottle using a cup. You will not get all 3.4 ounces of oil out of the system during the evacuation process so the 3-ounce pressurized can would be perfect. I would use the pressurized can myself but either wouldl be fine.

It interesting your sticker actually gives the oil amount whereas mine just states the WSH-M1C231-B spec but no amount. Yours also holds more freon than my 2020 at 21 ounces/1.31lbs versus 19 ounces/1.19lbs for mine.

I would just put the full 24 ounces from the 2 12 ounce cans of freon in since some will be left in the hoses after filling, and you should be good to go and nice and cold.

PAG oil is all made to an SAE standard which is what the label is designating.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/certified-a-c-pro/interdynamics-certified-a-c-pro-pag-oil/int5/pc1v/v/a/140484/automotive-car-2017-ford-mustang?q=PAG+oil&pos=2

BD

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gatornek

Discussion Starter · #40 · 10 mo ago

Buldawg76 said:
I was just thinking the pressurized cans would make it easier to add to the system versus out of the bottle using a cup. You will not get all 3.4 ounces of oil out of the system during the evacuation process so the 3-ounce pressurized can would be perfect

I'm not understanding what you're meaning here.

Here's the process as I understand it:

Connect the vacuum and gauges to their respective port, and run the vacuum for a LONG time (an hour should probably suffice to make my inner skeptic happy)
Once that is done, I turn the vacuum off and let it sit for like 15-20 minutes and make sure vacuum holds (if not, recheck the condenser fittings)
Once the vacuum is known to hold, pour the 3 1/2 oz of oil into the inlet hose of the gauges, and snap the r134a bottle RIGHT BEHIND IT.
So now, once I crack the refrigerant bottle, it should "suck everything up" into the system, no?

I thought I was leaving the motorcraft oil IN THERE, with everything else. Your response makes it seem, like I have to evacuate this oil, also? Are you talking about the oil that was "previously in there"?? If so, that kind of makes sense.

If so, then how does the "pressurized can" make better sense than the liquid oil? It's all about just getting it in, no?

Thanks BD.

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