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AC dead...again.

4764 Views 64 Replies 8 Participants Last post by  Buldawg76, 
gatornek
When it rains, it pours.

Was running errands with both the wife and the kid in the Mustang, while she was getting a new set of tires. Hot day out. Upon return to the tire center, I left the wife and the kid in the car with the engine running and the AC on. When I got back inside the car, the AC was no longer cool. The wife said she touched nothing, and that all of a sudden it went from cold to blah, just like that. Not good. Went outside, popped the hood, put a screwdriver the high-pressure release, and nothing. Not good. Seems like I lost all refrigerant, just like that.

I obviously have a bad leak somewhere.

The AC evaporator was replaced under warranty many years back. If it turns out to be that PIECE again, do I have any recourse for them to fix it "under warranty" again, or no?

Also, what's my best bet for a bit better self diagnosis? I've heard about some dye that you can get to spray into the system, to see where the leak is coming from? Would you all recommend that? Y'all know what to ask for at the auto parts store?

Thanks for the help in advance.
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Buldawg76
gatornek said:
I'm not understanding what you're meaning here.

Here's the process as I understand it:

Connect the vacuum and gauges to their respective port, and run the vacuum for a LONG time (an hour should probably suffice to make my inner skeptic happy)
Once that is done, I turn the vacuum off and let it sit for like 15-20 minutes and make sure vacuum holds (if not, recheck the condenser fittings)
Once the vacuum is known to hold, pour the 3 1/2 oz of oil into the inlet hose of the gauges, and snap the r134a bottle RIGHT BEHIND IT.
So now, once I crack the refrigerant bottle, it should "suck everything up" into the system, no?

I thought I was leaving the motorcraft oil IN THERE, with everything else. Your response makes it seem, like I have to evacuate this oil, also? Are you talking about the oil that was "previously in there"?? If so, that kind of makes sense.

If so, then how does the "pressurized can" make better sense than the liquid oil? It's all about just getting it in, no?

Thanks BD.
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Ok so you are correct in process as far as connecting the hoses to their respective (low/blue, high/red) side ports on the lines of the car and the yellow hose to the vacuum pump. during the evacuation process about 3/4 of the old oil will be sucked out of the lines and evap/condenser but not much will come out of the compressor.

Once you have allowed the pump to pull a vacuum for the hour you close both the blue and red valves on the gauge set before turning off the pump. Leave the yellow hose connected to pump and wait to see if vacuum holds.

If vacuum holds then you can disconnect the yellow hose and proceed one of two ways.
1) Measure out 3.4 ounces in a cup and immerse the end of yellow hose in the cup and open the red high side valve to allow it to suck the oil in and close the red valve just before it sucks in air, the messy way.

2) Or if you get the pressurized can of 3 ounces of oil then you disconnect the yellow hose from the pump and connect to the gold colored can adapter in the kit and screw the pressurized oil can into the adapter, then puncture the can with the valve on adapter ( you will likely have to unscrew the valve on the adapter to allow for the flow of oil/freon to occur) and open the red high side valve to allow the oil to be forced into the system by the pressure while holding the can with adapter at 6 o clock position, so all the oil is pushed out of can, then close the red high side valve and the puncturing valve on the adapter to seal the oil in the hose, the clean easy way.

If you blow thru the can adapter you will find which way is closed and which is open in terms of screwed in or out, I cannot remember which way is which at this time. I believe its counterclockwise to allow for flow and clockwise to puncture and seal after puncturing.

3) Then if you sucked oil from cup connect yellow hose to the can adapter and adapter to can of freon and open the blue low side valve on gauges to partial fill the system from pressure in the freon can again holding the can with adapter at 6 o'clock position till its empty, you will have to start the engine and turn on A/C ( max AC on high fan) to fully empty the can of freon then close adapter valve and switch to new can of freon and repeat.

4) If you choose to fill with pressurized oil can using the adapter, then close red high side valve and adapter valve and switch to freon can and open blue low side valve and adapter valve as above with can held upside down at 6 o'clock position till empty with A/C on as above. and repeat.

When both cans are empty close both adapter valve and blue low side valve on gauges and you should be done and can disconnect everything.

Hope this makes more sense. I just know what to do it sometimes get difficult to explain without missing steps or becoming confusing.

Feel free to reach out with questions.

Pm sent.

BD
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Buldawg76
Forgot about the quick connect adapters that the red and blue hoses connect to that attach to the lines of the car also have on/off knobs on them and those should be opened clockwise so they depress the Schrader valves in the lines and will be the first to be opened and left open until evacuation and charging is complete and then the last to be closed before disconnecting from car.

BD
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gatornek
Buldawg76 said:
Ok so you are correct in process as far as connecting the hoses to their respective (low/blue, high/red) side ports on the lines of the car and the yellow hose to the vacuum pump. during the evacuation process about 3/4 of the old oil will be sucked out of the lines and evap/condenser but not much will come out of the compressor.

Once you have allowed the pump to pull a vacuum for the hour you close both the blue and red valves on the gauge set before turning off the pump. Leave the yellow hose connected to pump and wait to see if vacuum holds.

If vacuum holds then you can disconnect the yellow hose and proceed one of two ways.
1) Measure out 3.4 ounces in a cup and immerse the end of yellow hose in the cup and open the red high side valve to allow it to suck the oil in and close the red valve just before it sucks in air, the messy way.

2) Or if you get the pressurized can of 3 ounces of oil then you disconnect the yellow hose from the pump and connect to the gold colored can adapter in the kit and screw the pressurized oil can into the adapter, then puncture the can with the valve on adapter ( you will likely have to unscrew the valve on the adapter to allow for the flow of oil/freon to occur) and open the red high side valve to allow the oil to be forced into the system by the pressure while holding the can with adapter at 6 o clock position, so all the oil is pushed out of can, then close the red high side valve and the puncturing valve on the adapter to seal the oil in the hose, the clean easy way.

If you blow thru the can adapter you will find which way is closed and which is open in terms of screwed in or out, I cannot remember which way is which at this time. I believe its counterclockwise to allow for flow and clockwise to puncture and seal after puncturing.

3) Then if you sucked oil from cup connect yellow hose to the can adapter and adapter to can of freon and open the blue low side valve on gauges to partial fill the system from pressure in the freon can again holding the can with adapter at 6 o'clock position till its empty, you will have to start the engine and turn on A/C ( max AC on high fan) to fully empty the can of freon then close adapter valve and switch to new can of freon and repeat.

4) If you choose to fill with pressurized oil can using the adapter, then close red high side valve and adapter valve and switch to freon can and open blue low side valve and adapter valve as above with can held upside down at 6 o'clock position till empty with A/C on as above. and repeat.

When both cans are empty close both adapter valve and blue low side valve on gauges and you should be done and can disconnect everything.

Hope this makes more sense. I just know what to do it sometimes get difficult to explain without missing steps or becoming confusing.

Feel free to reach out with questions.

Pm sent.

BD
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Hmmm.....

The video I saw simply said to pour the oil "into" the open end of the hose and hold it open end up, while you screw the refrigerant in "behind the oil". But I see your point. Still no good way to NOT make a mess, OR be sure you're NOT introducing air into the system. I'm probably more worried about the latter than the former.

If your buddy confirmed that those pressurized oils will work, then I will swap it out when i get to O'reillys. Thank you BD!
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johnnybee
gatornek said:
Hmmm.....

The video I saw simply said to pour the oil "into" the open end of the hose and hold it open end up, while you screw the refrigerant in "behind the oil". But I see your point. Still no good way to NOT make a mess, OR be sure you're NOT introducing air into the system. I'm probably more worried about the latter than the former.

If your buddy confirmed that those pressurized oils will work, then I will swap it out when i get to O'reillys. Thank you BD!
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Sounds like a job for a hypodermic needle (with or without needle). You can measure oil and put it in the hose mess free.
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Buldawg76
gatornek said:
Hmmm.....

The video I saw simply said to pour the oil "into" the open end of the hose and hold it open end up, while you screw the refrigerant in "behind the oil". But I see your point. Still no good way to NOT make a mess, OR be sure you're NOT introducing air into the system. I'm probably more worried about the latter than the former.

If your buddy confirmed that those pressurized oils will work, then I will swap it out when i get to O'reillys. Thank you BD!
Click to expand...
The issue with just pouring the oil in the hose beside losing the vacuum you just pulled on the system is the oil will not flow fast enough into the hose without overflowing out of the very small ID hose.

By using the pressurized can of oil and freon the only very small amount of air introduced into the vacuumed system will be just when you change from the pump to the can adapter which is the small volume of the yellow hose only. With both valves on the gauge set closed and the can adapter in the closed position you will only get very little air in the yellow hose once.

Then as long as you close the can adapter between the oil and both freon cans no more air is introduced into the system. Thats why I suggested the pressurized oil versus sucking oil from cup in yellow hose because if you accidentally pull hose out of oil in cup or don't get gauge valve closed fast enough before all oil is sucked out of cup you lose all vacuum in system.

The only way to eliminate any air from system is to pay shop to use the big machine that they never have to unhook hoses from start to finish. But it also uses recycled clean freon that has been evacuated from other vehicles they have used it on before your car, so in actuality you are not getting new unused freon but rather recycled/cleaned freon.

I did it the way I have described with cans of freon for many years when that was the only means of evacuating and charging a system with no issue from the minimal amount of air introduced when swapping from pump to can adapter.

If I was doing my car, I would use the pressurized can of oil and new freon cans myself.

BD
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gatornek
Tire Wheel Vehicle Grille Automotive lighting



White Light Blue Gauge Measuring instrument


I let that vacuum run for about an hour and then turned it off and it held right at that very line for another half hour.

Honestly, that seems to have been the most critical part of all this! So I was pretty happy about that.

AC is currently blowing ice cold again!!

I do have some concerns about the amount of PAG oil in there. When I showed up at Oreillys, I returned the motor craft pag oil and got 3 cans of the AC Pro 46. I had the damndest of times getting those bottles to crack and properly export it’s contents. The refrigerant was NO PROBLEM. I’d hear the crack, and would immediately see the refrigerant come out the Schraeder valve when I hit the release on the yellow hose. But the pag oil cans were a pain in the butt. Honestly, I think I got about one and half cans in and each can only had an ounce of pag oil.
I’ll take your guys’ feedback on that before I do anything else. I can post a video too of what I’m taking about. Do you think I have enough oil in there, or should i look to address this as soon as posible?
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Buldawg76
You should have only needed 1 can of oil since they are a 3-ounce can and your system only holds 3.4 ounces and evacuating the system will not get all 3.4 ounces of oil out of the complete system. The vacuum in the system should have sucked the oil out of the can easily. Not sure why it was so hard to get it to puncture and suck the oil out.

Since its blowing good and cold I would leave it be since the only easy way to remove any oil is to evacuate it again and start over. If you only got 1 and 1/2 cans of oil or about 4.5 ounces of oil in the system, you will be fine with the little extra.

Glad it all went well and is back working like it should.

You remember the pressure on the low and high side after it was filled and blowing cold air. Low side should be around 45 PSI and high side around 200-250 PSI depending on ambient temps and humidity.

(y)

BD
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gatornek
Buldawg76 said:
You should have only needed 1 can of oil since they are a 3-ounce can
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They are 3oz cans. But it isn't all oil. I didn't realize it until I got to O'reillys and read the back of the can. That's why I bought 3. But I simply feel the cans weren't pressurized well enough. When I get a chance, I will demo a video of what I'm talking about since I still have one of the cans. But essentially...if the can is connected to yellow hose, and both blue and red valves are CLOSED, then I should be able to release the pressure on the can by hitting the schrader valve on the other end of the yellow hose. That happened correctly, IT SEEMED, on only one of the cans. The other can was so-so, and the 3rd can feels full, but there is ZERO pressure release in the above mentioned situation. I'm leaning towards either "poorly made cans" or I didn't shake it well enough or something of the sort. It was a bit confusing to me. The (2) R134a cans I had, went in like butter. But not these guys. I feel like I should get another ounce of oil in there somehow to make sure my compressor doesn't crap out or year or two from now.

Font Parallel Screenshot Electric blue Publication




I also wonder if revving the engine and getting the rpms up would've helped...but I didn't think to do that.
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Buldawg76
Hmmm, it does not go into that breakdown on their website. They don't show the back of can. If they only have 1 ounce of oil, then yes you would need 3 cans.
From the directions you showed above on the can you need to attach can to adapter at yellow hose with engine running and A/C on and open the blue knob at low side line to depress Schrader valve in the line and open blue valve on gauge and puncture the can with adapter on end of yellow hose so the compressor can suck the contents out of the can with can inverted so the punctured end is at 6 o clock.

That should empty the can properly. Revving the engine may help but really should not be necessary.

You may have gotten some bad can that were low on pressure, but the A/C should still be able to suck the contents out of them with compressor running and all blue knob/valves open.

Let me know if you get the this can in the system.

BD
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gatornek
So this has become a "thing". I had my race IC in for over two years with no issues, but now I've had two bang ups on the condenser within 5 months of each other.
Plant Mesh Tree Road surface Grass


Building Grille Mesh Rectangle Tints and shades


Luckily, I knew just what to do this time around. I thought for sure the first time was because I cinched up the hotside pipe SUPER TIGHT to the turbo, and it was basically causing it to pull up against it. But I did put in a longer silicone hose to give me more "play room" and I thought that could be the fix. But nope. Back at it here.

However, this time around, I also left the radiator support brackets a little loose. They are still taught, but if I would've torqued it all the way down, it would have been touching the IC again, just barely. I'm going to have to keep an eye on this, and I also think it might be an issue when I come across a hard bump, or a divot incline into a driveway. Just gotta make sure I take those super slow.

If it happens again, I may have to consider going back to a 'stock location' after market IC.
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johnnybee
Are the earlier cars 134A? My 2018 owner’s manual says 1234YF.
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gatornek
johnnybee said:
Are the earlier cars 134A? My 2018 owner’s manual says 1234YF.
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Stamped on my hood.
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johnnybee
gatornek said:
Stamped on my hood.
View attachment 44118
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Lucky you… I understand that the 1234YF is more expensive and more costly to work on.
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Buldawg76
Man Bro, that really sucks that you are having to replace the condenser again in such a short time. I would figure out a way to securely mount the race IC so it cannot ever get close enough to the condenser to touch it. Do you have the front upper and lower K braces, cowl extension and strut tower braces on your car, if you do your chassis should be stiff enough to not flex enough to allow for contact to occur over uneven driveway entrances or road surfaces. Most don't realize there is a cowl extension brace that ties the firewall and upper K brace into the windshield wiper well of the firewall.

There just happen to be one for sale on Ebay for a savings of 10-20 bucks over dealer prices with free shipping, there was 2 and I bought one of them to go on my car. It says for 15-17 but it fits 15-23 model years. If you have the upper k brace and strut tower brace already then you need to get 4 bolts to install the cowl brace #W717964-S450B from a dealer.

2015-2017 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Support Mount Bracket Brace OEM 15-17 | eBay

Here is a thread from the 6G forum on it and the other front end braces that help stiffen the front end.

(2) PP Strut Tower Brace kit + Cowl Extension + Lower K Brace Install Guide | 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, EcoBoost, GT350, GT500, Bullitt, Mach 1) - Mustang6G.com

BD
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gatornek
Buldawg76 said:
Man Bro, that really sucks that you are having to replace the condenser again in such a short time. I would figure out a way to securely mount the race IC so it cannot ever get close enough to the condenser to touch it. Do you have the front upper and lower K braces, cowl extension and strut tower braces on your car, if you do your chassis should be stiff enough to not flex enough to allow for contact to occur over uneven driveway entrances or road surfaces. Most don't realize there is a cowl extension brace that ties the firewall and upper K brace into the windshield wiper well of the firewall.

There just happen to be one for sale on Ebay for a savings of 10-20 bucks over dealer prices with free shipping, there was 2 and I bought one of them to go on my car. It says for 15-17 but it fits 15-23 model years. If you have the upper k brace and strut tower brace already then you need to get 4 bolts to install the cowl brace #W717964-S450B from a dealer.

2015-2017 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Support Mount Bracket Brace OEM 15-17 | eBay

Here is a thread from the 6G forum on it and the other front end braces that help stiffen the front end.

(2) PP Strut Tower Brace kit + Cowl Extension + Lower K Brace Install Guide | 2015+ S550 Mustang Forum (GT, EcoBoost, GT350, GT500, Bullitt, Mach 1) - Mustang6G.com

BD
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I have the cowl and strut bar. Lower K brace could be an option.
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Buldawg76
gatornek said:
I have the cowl and strut bar. Lower K brace could be an option.
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You have the upper k brace also? Its 3 pieces for the top of engine compartment.

BD
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gatornek
Buldawg76 said:
You have the upper k brace also? Its 3 pieces for the top of engine compartment.

BD
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Hmmm. Don't you need the "upper K brace" in place in order to attach the "cowl bar"? Maybe I'm mis-stating the correct nomenclature. My 2016 came with the "Performance Pack", so the only extra thing I added was the strut bar. But my car came with this:

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Buldawg76
gatornek said:
Hmmm. Don't you need the "upper K brace" in place in order to attach the "cowl bar"? Maybe I'm mis-stating the correct nomenclature. My 2016 came with the "Performance Pack", so the only extra thing I added was the strut bar. But my car came with this:

View attachment 44125
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Yes and no. You can add just the cowl brace without the upper K brace with the 3 bolts that hold the cheap plastic brace on the right side where the battery covers push pins go so the cowl extension would have 3 bolts back at the firewall and three bolts at the front of the wiper well portion of the firewall but without the upper K brace. There is one bolt that secures the cowl extension to the upper K brace, so it is a total of 7 bolts for both under the wiper cover.

The "Performance Pack" I thought came with all three parts (cowl expression, upper K brace and strut bar) I thought but you say you had to add the strut bar so obliviously it did not have the strut bar. Maybe there was a PP1 and PP2 package in 16 like there is now and the PP2 added the strut bar also.

You do have all the upper parts on your car, so the only other item is the lower K brace that really is not that strong of a piece IMO since its only about 3/32" thick or maybe 1/8", my premuim package for 2020 came with the lower k brace so i added the top 3 pieces. I am not sure just how much the lower K brace really does for stiffening the subframe to be honest.

BD
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robdabank86
Do you have to remove and empty the radiator to remove the condensor (2015 2.3l ecoboost mustang)?
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gatornek
robdabank86 said:
Do you have to remove and empty the radiator to remove the condensor (2015 2.3l ecoboost mustang)?
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No. It pops right out with the radiator still in place. The only things you have to move out of the way are the coolant overflow tank, and your air intake.
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