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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well after a lot of thinking on which tune device to pick up and what I want to do with car I decided go with a Cobb. I was debating on either a SCT or just doing a Ford Performance tune.
My wife and I have a 2020 ecoboost that now has 15k on it. I am ready to have a tune. For now I am going to run one of the Cobb OTS tunes until I decide which tuner to go with. For mods I have done the following…..
Mishimoto intercooler, S&B cai, JLT catch can, Roush cat back exhaust, ford performance lowering springs. Future mods will be AEM methanol injection.
So after a lot of forum reading between Cobb stage 1 and 2 it seems people prefer stage 1. Stage 2 dosent really make much of a difference. As for tuners I am still deciding who to go with. With this new Cobb gone green act will it hamper a custom tune compared to before? It seems to just affect downpipes, which I don’t plan on running.
 

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Well after a lot of thinking on which tune device to pick up and what I want to do with car I decided go with a Cobb. I was debating on either a SCT or just doing a Ford Performance tune.
My wife and I have a 2020 ecoboost that now has 15k on it. I am ready to have a tune. For now I am going to run one of the Cobb OTS tunes until I decide which tuner to go with. For mods I have done the following…..
Mishimoto intercooler, S&B cai, JLT catch can, Roush cat back exhaust, ford performance lowering springs. Future mods will be AEM methanol injection.
So after a lot of forum reading between Cobb stage 1 and 2 it seems people prefer stage 1. Stage 2 dosent really make much of a difference. As for tuners I am still deciding who to go with. With this new Cobb gone green act will it hamper a custom tune compared to before? It seems to just affect downpipes, which I don’t plan on running.
I have a Cobb, FBO, custom tune and all that stuff. Here is what I know that might be useful for you. I think you made a good call with Cobb. It's the preferred platform overall and in case you ever want to go the custom tune route that's the platform the major tuners use.

As to OTS tunes - Stage 1 really wakes up the car, all that is required is a high flow air filter. I would assume you have one give the CAI, but if not AEF Pro Dry Part #31-10255 will work well.

Stage 2, however makes a BIG difference. The major power gains are there and with the intercooler and high flow air filter, you are ready.

Stage 3 was pulled from the market but it's not that big of an issue as the bulk of the power comes with Stage 2, the difference between Stage 2 and 3 is not that big. You don't have a down pipe, so you aren't ready for Stage 3 anyway which you knew.

Now to the Custom Tune - this is where I differ with most, I guess. Of course, there is no black and white answer that applies to all circumstances, because there never is with any issue with a few variables, but that does not mean that we can't draw some generally supportable conclusions and the conclusion is: You do not need a custom tune. That's the answer. You in particular do not as you haven't indicated that you want very ounce of power out of the car. If you want to play it safe, the load Stage 1 and stay with it and be happy. To me, the difference between stock and Stage 1 is huge when it comes to drivability, it's just a huge improvement. With a larger intercooler, you have a big safety margin built in by running Stage 1 vs Stage 2 and you could increase that even more by running Stage 1 91 and then run 93 octane in your car for an even larger safety margin.

Now for all the qualifiers.....Much of the push for a custom tune is supposed to be because it is "safer" because it's made "just for your car". I am not saying that's a lie, but in reality, I think that it's a bunch of fanboy nonsense made to sell custom tunes. "You need a custom tune, bro. Really need to pony up and join our club bro. You just ain't a man without a custom tune, bro." That's what I mean by fanboy :cool:. It's rampant, don't fall for it. Are custom tunes safer than OTS, MAYBE, BUT highly doubtful and here is why. Assuming your car is not a lemon, does not already have mechanical problems, then you are almost certainly not any safer with a custom tune than an OTS tune AT THE SAME POWER LEVELS. It's common sense. No company would build a device like Cobb and spend the millions of dollars behind it, without building in safeguards and those safeguards apply to all vehicles that are mechanically sound and running the CORRECT MODS. Run a tune without the correct mods in place? OTS tune blows engine. Fault? The idiot who loaded a tune without the right mods in place. Not the tunes' fault. So is a custom tune worth getting? Of course it is, IF you are pushing high power levels and trying to squeeze all you can out of the setup. Otherwise, just have the correct mods in place and load the correct OTS tune and be happy. Afterall, you have a testing device in the palm of your hand - the Cobb Access Port!!! Use it and monitor your car!!!! If you are seeing high corrections to ignition timing, frequent corrections to ignition timing, persistent knock counts, you have an issue using the OTS tune which is likely an issue with your car itself that needs to be corrected, but the tune definitively needs to be pulled until you figure it out. I say this because I have run the stock tune and all OTS tunes and the custom tune and monitored them all my car runs fine on any of them without any issues with knock and timing correction. The difference is that on the custom tune, the power band is wider, comes on sooner, and I develop more torque overall, but not a huge amount over Stage 3 OTS and all of that indicates nothing other than the custom tune is pushing my car HARDER and exposing it to MORE risk than the OTS map and that at that power level its a really good idea to have a custom tune vs an OTS. More risk, more power. The OTS maps are less risk, less power, PROVIDED you have the correct mods in place.
 

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Knowing what I know now I wish I had gone with a Cobb AP over the FP tuner.

BD
Yeah, you know, we just make the best decisions that we can with what we know at the time. Even with a lot of research, it's hard to know what to do, because much of what is out there is just opinions accepted as fact, and often times the opinions are not based upon anything other than hearsay. Unfortunately, the whole OTS maps are dangerous scared many away from Cobb and that's a shame. The counter to that is the old "every car that's went boom did it on an OTS map" and while that may be true so is the statement that every drug addict drank milk as a child. That does not prove that milk creates drug addiction. We can assume that all boom engines were running an OTS map and just say that it's fact, true the whole truth is very likely that people were running OTS Maps WITHOUT having the equipment to support it is the cause in most cases.

I've been really happy with Cobb and all the work I had done. I also have had second thoughts and knowing what I know now thoughts too. I have thoughts that I could have been best off just staying with my high flow air filter and Cobb Stage 1 OTS. Car was much more responsive and much more fun to drive and had all the power I needed vs stock. In actuality it had all the power I needed stock, but the HUGE increase in drivability with Stage 1 makes it a much, much more enjoyable car, BUT, like most every other male I got that taste of power and wanted MORE!! So now I have all the stuff and a custom tune. I love it, don't get me wrong and am VERY happy I did it. However, it may have made much more sense to just have stayed with Cobb Stage 1 given I bought the car new. I could then easily reflash to stock and take my car in for warranty work anytime I wanted. With all the mods, there are a lot of questions to answer that mean I don't have much of a likelihood of having an actual warranty to cover major issues should they arise without at least a big fight with the dealer. I know all about them having to prove that the mods and tune etc caused the issue but in reality, life too short to have to fight everyone about everything and should there be a major issue that's most likely what would happen.

Cobb is the deal though, over the FP tune, because you get a built in diagnostic device in the Access Port, and you get a built in ability to grow as you have time or money for more mods, all for one flat fee., PLUS the ability to custom tune if you like. My custom tune puts out a huge amount of torque at 415 lb-fts so it all worked out just fine.
 

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Yeah, you know, we just make the best decisions that we can with what we know at the time. Even with a lot of research, it's hard to know what to do, because much of what is out there is just opinions accepted as fact, and often times the opinions are not based upon anything other than hearsay. Unfortunately, the whole OTS maps are dangerous scared many away from Cobb and that's a shame. The counter to that is the old "every car that's went boom did it on an OTS map" and while that may be true so is the statement that every drug addict drank milk as a child. That does not prove that milk creates drug addiction. We can assume that all boom engines were running an OTS map and just say that it's fact, true the whole truth is very likely that people were running OTS Maps WITHOUT having the equipment to support it is the cause in most cases.

I've been really happy with Cobb and all the work I had done. I also have had second thoughts and knowing what I know now thoughts too. I have thoughts that I could have been best off just staying with my high flow air filter and Cobb Stage 1 OTS. Car was much more responsive and much more fun to drive and had all the power I needed vs stock. In actuality it had all the power I needed stock, but the HUGE increase in drivability with Stage 1 makes it a much, much more enjoyable car, BUT, like most every other male I got that taste of power and wanted MORE!! So now I have all the stuff and a custom tune. I love it, don't get me wrong and am VERY happy I did it. However, it may have made much more sense to just have stayed with Cobb Stage 1 given I bought the car new. I could then easily reflash to stock and take my car in for warranty work anytime I wanted. With all the mods, there are a lot of questions to answer that mean I don't have much of a likelihood of having an actual warranty to cover major issues should they arise without at least a big fight with the dealer. I know all about them having to prove that the mods and tune etc caused the issue but in reality, life too short to have to fight everyone about everything and should there be a major issue that's most likely what would happen.

Cobb is the deal though, over the FP tune, because you get a built in diagnostic device in the Access Port, and you get a built in ability to grow as you have time or money for more mods, all for one flat fee., PLUS the ability to custom tune if you like. My custom tune puts out a huge amount of torque at 415 lb-fts so it all worked out just fine.
Agree with all you said and its very true with most any decisions we make in life.

My issue with the FP tuner is not anything to do with the performance improvement and fun factor since it is excellent in that respect indeed. I did a dyno run in Pensacola, FL on the Hot Rod power tour in 100-degree ambient temps and recorded 264RWHP and 380RWTQ so very happy with those numbers considering the IAT was 129 degrees. In 1/4 mile run it shaved .5 seconds off and added 4mph to my trap speed for a 13.9 at 104 over stock of 14.4 at 100 mph.

My issue is partly my fault and also FP fault/issue.

1. My fault- I did not read the info page closely enough to realize/understand that once the FP tune is installed in an 18+ vehicle you do not have the ability to return to the stock tune with the program. 15-17 model year vehicles do have that ability with the program so that is on me. To return to stock on a 18+ vehicle a dealer must reflash the "as built" calibration into the PCM for a fee.

2. Not my fault- My main issue with the FP tuner right now is that the program is not working at all in the configure function which should allow you to change for different axle ratios and tire sizes should you make any of those changes. It also has the ability to turn on octane retard function should you get a bad tank of fuel to help keep detonation from occurring and has a misfire code diagnostic function, all of which in my program are nonfunctional. It also should auto populate the configuration with my vehicles factory axle ratio and tire revolution per mile number which it does not do. It should show 3.15 axle ratio and tire rev/mile number of 761, but instead shows 2.70 axle ratio and 732 tire rev/mile number. My speedo and odometer are accurate with my phone GPS speed/distance app so no codes are setting.

3. I have contacted FP tech about this issue, and it's been ongoing for over a month now (6 phone calls) with the tech rep telling me he has sent the issue to 4 different engineers now, still with no results or progress being made to correct the nonfunctional portion of the program. I feel I am just being paid lip service and have actually been told by the tech rep that while the configure function should indeed work, the fact that it is not setting any codes means that it is not really an issue or problem to him. I will call once more on Tuesday to see if anything has moved forward and if not then will be contacting ford customer service. I feel that I paid good money for a program that is not functioning as designed/advertised so should either get the issue corrected or have my money refunded and the vehicle returned to the stock calibration at fords expense.

Thats my issue with the FP tuner for 18+ vehicles. My buddies 17 FP tuner program works perfectly, and he can go from stock to FP tune at will and it also auto populates with the correct axle ratio and tire rev/mile numbers, octane adjust/misfire Diagnostics work as they should in the configure function.

BD
 

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Having run both OTS tune and custom tunes with FBO, all I will say is it's night and day between the 2. Plus you can send heath checks when ever you want to your tuner with the life time tune option
 
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Agree with all you said and its very true with most any decisions we make in life.

My issue with the FP tuner is not anything to do with the performance improvement and fun factor since it is excellent in that respect indeed. I did a dyno tun in Pensacola, FL on the Hot Rod power tour in 100-degree ambient temps and recorded 264RWHP and 380RWTQ so very happy with those numbers considering the IAT was 129 degrees. In 1/4 mile run it shaved .5 seconds off and added 4mph to my trap speed for a 13.9 at 104 over stock of 14.4 at 100 mph.

My issue is partly my fault and also FP fault/issue.

1. My fault- I did not read the info page closely enough to realize/understand that once the FP tune is installed in an 18+ vehicle you do not have the ability to return to the stock tune with the program. 15-17 model year vehicles do have that ability with the program so that is on me. To return to stock on a 18+ vehicle a dealer must reflash the "as built" calibration into the PCM for a fee.

2. Not my fault- My main issue with the FP tuner right now is that the program is not working at all in the configure function which should allow you to change for different axle ratios and tire sizes should you make any of those changes. It also has the ability to turn on octane retard function should you get a bad tank of fuel to help keep detonation from occurring and has a misfire code diagnostic function, all of which in my program are nonfunctional. It also should auto populate the configuration with my vehicles factory axle ratio and tire revolution per mile number which it does not do. It should show 3.15 axle ratio and tire rev/mile number of 761, but instead shows 2.70 axle ratio and 732 tire rev/mile number. My speedo and odometer are accurate with my phone GPS speed/distance app so no codes are setting.

3. I have contacted FP tech about this issue, and it's been ongoing for over a month now (6 phone calls) with the tech rep telling me he has sent the issue to 4 different engineers now, still with no results or progress being made to correct the nonfunctional portion of the program. I feel I am just being paid lip service and have actually been told by the tech rep that while the configure function should indeed work, the fact that it is not setting any codes means that it is not really an issue or problem to him. I will call once more on Tuesday to see if anything has moved forward and if not then will be contacting ford customer service. I feel that I paid good money for a program that is not functioning as designed/advertised so should either get the issue corrected or have my money refunded and the vehicle returned to the stock calibration at fords expense.

Thats my issue with the FP tuner for 18+ vehicles. My buddies 17 FP tuner program works perfectly, and he can go from stock to FP tune at will and it also auto populates with the correct axle ratio and tire rev/mile numbers, octane adjust/misfire Diagnostics work as they should in the configure function.

BD
That's crazy. I'm with you. Either make it work right or put my car back to the way it was and give me my money back. It's simple.
 

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That's crazy. I'm with you. Either make it work right or put my car back to the way it was and give me my money back. It's simple.
Yea it should be a no brainer, but there are only 3 FP tech reps and all are working from home at this time so not much help or concern for the customers issues.

I will not give up and will become the squeaky wheel that needs grease if need be.

BD
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have a Cobb, FBO, custom tune and all that stuff. Here is what I know that might be useful for you. I think you made a good call with Cobb. It's the preferred platform overall and in case you ever want to go the custom tune route that's the platform the major tuners use.

As to OTS tunes - Stage 1 really wakes up the car, all that is required is a high flow air filter. I would assume you have one give the CAI, but if not AEF Pro Dry Part #31-10255 will work well.

Stage 2, however makes a BIG difference. The major power gains are there and with the intercooler and high flow air filter, you are ready.

Stage 3 was pulled from the market but it's not that big of an issue as the bulk of the power comes with Stage 2, the difference between Stage 2 and 3 is not that big. You don't have a down pipe, so you aren't ready for Stage 3 anyway which you knew.

Now to the Custom Tune - this is where I differ with most, I guess. Of course, there is no black and white answer that applies to all circumstances, because there never is with any issue with a few variables, but that does not mean that we can't draw some generally supportable conclusions and the conclusion is: You do not need a custom tune. That's the answer. You in particular do not as you haven't indicated that you want very ounce of power out of the car. If you want to play it safe, the load Stage 1 and stay with it and be happy. To me, the difference between stock and Stage 1 is huge when it comes to drivability, it's just a huge improvement. With a larger intercooler, you have a big safety margin built in by running Stage 1 vs Stage 2 and you could increase that even more by running Stage 1 91 and then run 93 octane in your car for an even larger safety margin.

Now for all the qualifiers.....Much of the push for a custom tune is supposed to be because it is "safer" because it's made "just for your car". I am not saying that's a lie, but in reality, I think that it's a bunch of fanboy nonsense made to sell custom tunes. "You need a custom tune, bro. Really need to pony up and join our club bro. You just ain't a man without a custom tune, bro." That's what I mean by fanboy :cool:. It's rampant, don't fall for it. Are custom tunes safer than OTS, MAYBE, BUT highly doubtful and here is why. Assuming your car is not a lemon, does not already have mechanical problems, then you are almost certainly not any safer with a custom tune than an OTS tune AT THE SAME POWER LEVELS. It's common sense. No company would build a device like Cobb and spend the millions of dollars behind it, without building in safeguards and those safeguards apply to all vehicles that are mechanically sound and running the CORRECT MODS. Run a tune without the correct mods in place? OTS tune blows engine. Fault? The idiot who loaded a tune without the right mods in place. Not the tunes' fault. So is a custom tune worth getting? Of course it is, IF you are pushing high power levels and trying to squeeze all you can out of the setup. Otherwise, just have the correct mods in place and load the correct OTS tune and be happy. Afterall, you have a testing device in the palm of your hand - the Cobb Access Port!!! Use it and monitor your car!!!! If you are seeing high corrections to ignition timing, frequent corrections to ignition timing, persistent knock counts, you have an issue using the OTS tune which is likely an issue with your car itself that needs to be corrected, but the tune definitively needs to be pulled until you figure it out. I say this because I have run the stock tune and all OTS tunes and the custom tune and monitored them all my car runs fine on any of them without any issues with knock and timing correction. The difference is that on the custom tune, the power band is wider, comes on sooner, and I develop more torque overall, but not a huge amount over Stage 3 OTS and all of that indicates nothing other than the custom tune is pushing my car HARDER and exposing it to MORE risk than the OTS map and that at that power level its a really good idea to have a custom tune vs an OTS. More risk, more power. The OTS maps are less risk, less power, PROVIDED you have the
 

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ok. So what would be causing that? Spark plugs?
I'm sorry for not being clear. It looks good because there are no negative ignition corrections. Zero is good and yours shows a range of zero to +8 and that's good. Plus is good, negative is bad. No negative corrections is perfect.

Also, the octane of your gas is good too. KOM of +1 is as good as it gets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'm sorry for not being clear. It looks good because there are no negative ignition corrections. Zero is good and yours shows a range of zero to +8 and that's good. Plus is good, negative is bad. No negative corrections is perfect.

Also, the octane of your gas is good too. KOM of +1 is as good as it gets.
Ahh ok ……. Had me worried lol. The car only has 15k miles on it, so I was all like what the heck could it be causing it. Thanks for clarifying.
 

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The car will feel even stronger in the winter months when charge temps will stay below 100°..... the ecu starts pulling power at 100+ charge temps.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
 

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ok. So what would be causing that? Spark plugs?
Not to scare you but you really need to be monitoring cylinder 1 and 4 for corrections
 
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