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Hey guys,

  1. I wanted to get some thoughts on what could have gone wrong. My wife and I purchased a brand new Ecoboost 11/2019, I wanted a GT but she was scared of the power knowing I would tune it and all the bolt in’s **** I did with my 2016 GT. Anyway so service wise we did oil change at 250 miles and 1000 mile. Right away I purchased the COBB stage 3 kit. I didn’t want to throw all the parts on until we broke in the engine. Only parts I installed so far was Cobb intake and stage 1 tune and new spark plugs. I knew I would be doing customs tunes at some point so did some research and started working with a “pro tuner”.Again nothing crazy just intake and tuner. After engine was broke in I was going to put the rest of the stage 3 pack on and start doing some custom tuning at that point....never made it to that point. My wife put 2800 of the 3000 miles that were on the car and she doesn’t drive crazy at all, never changed the drive mode and doubt she ever came close to hitting redline. The few miles I did put on the car were not very hard either. Never took it to the track, no burnouts or line lock or no doughnuts. Had to do some “pulls” for the custom tuning but those are only from 3k-5k rpm. My wife said last week when merging on the freeway she noticed a stuttering when she would get on the freeway. That day I drove it around town and didn’t feel anything that she described. Set an appointment with the dealership to have them check it out. After driving it around town the next day I took it to work and wanted to see if I could feel what she described. She doesn’t know much about cars so wanted to hear/feel it for myself so I could explain to service manager. I was going about 60 mph, put it in “track” mode and punched it to pass some cars and around 5k rpm i felt the stuttering she was talking about and got off the gas right away. Next exit on the freeway was my destination so got off the freeway came home to the light, made a right hand turn, start to accelerate from a stop and then white smoke everywhere and engine sounded like nuts and washers in a tin can. The stuttering I felt on the freeway was nothing to bad IMO, honestly felt like a random misfire and only happened on freeway under WOT. Towed it home and slapped the stock intake on and also the stock tune kneeing it was going back for warranty. (That’s another issue)...I wanted to pick your guys brain on what could have caused this? Only Cobb intake and custom tuned. I’ve had 2016 Camaro 1LE and 2016 GT, 2011 f250 6.7 diesel and 2017 Camaro zl1. All of those cars were tuned with a lot more mods and zero issues. I had The Ecoboost setup for 91 octane and always used chevron gas. was told I could have had “bad batch of gas” or “fuel pump” was failing from tuner. Dealership has not got back to me with their details of what happened other than there’s a hole in the block and metal everywhere and have to do full investigation for warranty to cover motor. Sorry for the long story, just wanted to give as much detail as possible cause this is really a head scratcher. I work in the car industry and been wrenching on cars since a kid with my dad. I’m no ase matertech but can get myself around the car just fine and have always done my own work myself. Any thoughts on what could have caused this?? I have $4k in parts sitting in my garage for this car and now 2nd guessing putting anything on when getting the car back or until I hear something that makes sense of why this first motor blew. Any advise would be greatly appreciated, I’m not here to bash any part companies or who tuned it just thoughts on what could have caused this and how to prevent in the future
 

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My guess would be that it suffered some “Low speed pre-ignition” when your wife was driving, doing the initial damage, and when you ran it up the damaged part let go and went through the block.
Your wife probably did nothing wrong, just drove it as a normal car, problem is you should never accelerate without down shifting to keep the rpms up. I see your previous cars were pretty much all V8’s so you are both used to being able to punch it at 2000rpms and go, doesn’t work out well with these 4 bangers, the twin scroll turbo will provide more boost than the rods can handle at those low rpms.
When you get it back go ahead and do the stage 3, get it tuned and don’t punch it unless the rpms are over 3500-4000....don’t lug the motor and you’ll be fine for many years.
Stop thinking V8 and think Maserati, these motors love high rpms and will live longer if that is remembered.
 

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Doubt it is “Low speed pre-ignition”. LSPI is a very violent knock that will scare the crap out of you when it happens. A slight stuttering and loss of power when getting on the gas doesn't sound like LSPI.

Dave
 

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When you installed the new plugs did you check the gap? I just bought a set of cooler 6510 plugs and they were gapped at .042 in the box. That will cause an issue at higher rpms.
 

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I have no idea, but after this when all said and done look into ford perf tune. I havnt read any failures with them, I currently have it. 20k miles would never a hiccup. Hope they warranty your engine!
 

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My guess would be that it suffered some “Low speed pre-ignition” when your wife was driving, doing the initial damage, and when you ran it up the damaged part let go and went through the block.
Your wife probably did nothing wrong, just drove it as a normal car, problem is you should never accelerate without down shifting to keep the rpms up. I see your previous cars were pretty much all V8’s so you are both used to being able to punch it at 2000rpms and go, doesn’t work out well with these 4 bangers, the twin scroll turbo will provide more boost than the rods can handle at those low rpms.
When you get it back go ahead and do the stage 3, get it tuned and don’t punch it unless the rpms are over 3500-4000....don’t lug the motor and you’ll be fine for many years.
Stop thing V8 and think Maserati, these motors love high rpms and will live longer if that is remembered.
x2 everything here. Most likely LSPI, and it can happen without hearing or feeling a damn thing....
 

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Most likely LSPI, and it can happen without hearing or feeling a damn thing....
Not sure where you got the idea that LSPI doesn't make a noise but that is not true.

LSPI or "Super Knock" as it is also refered to in its mildest form sounds like typical spark knock and as it increases in intensity will generate a loud banging eminating from the engine.




Dave
 

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Not sure where you got the idea that LSPI doesn't make a noise but that is not true.

LSPI or "Super Knock" as it is also refered to in its mildest form sounds like typical spark knock and as it increases in intensity will generate a loud banging eminating from the engine.




Dave
Yep but most folk have no idea what it sounds like and 99% with loud exhaust and stereos will never notice it.......and usually by the time it’s loud enough to be noticed the damage is already begun.
 

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Just a couple of questions on the LSPI 1) I can see that occurring on a manual tranny not so much on the automatic where you really cant lug it why would it happen on the auto? 2) basically they are working on oil to prevent this so what is happening is these engines are combusting oil instead of gasoline for fuel like a diesel?? Thanks
 

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Not sure where you got the idea that LSPI doesn't make a noise but that is not true.

LSPI or "Super Knock" as it is also refered to in its mildest form sounds like typical spark knock and as it increases in intensity will generate a loud banging eminating from the engine.




Dave
[/QUOTE

Dave not knocking your expertise as a engineer, but im speaking from first hand experience. Have you personally gone ecoboom from LSPI because I have, and it is very easy to miss any sounds or warning signs.
 

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1. It can happen just as easily with an auto, I think the biggest reason it’s not occurring more with the auto is that most always drive in Sports mode which reacts quite a bit faster than Normal mode.

2. No, LSPI is too much fuel at too low of an rpm, that ignites before the desired Moment in time.
 

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Just a couple of questions on the LSPI 1) I can see that occurring on a manual tranny not so much on the automatic where you really cant lug it why would it happen on the auto? 2) basically they are working on oil to prevent this so what is happening is these engines are combusting oil instead of gasoline for fuel like a diesel?? Thanks
It is more common to see it happen to manual tranny cars, because of people flooring it in 5th or 6th. Too much fuel and boost at low rpm causes cylinder pressure to skyrocket and can do several things.
1. crack the block
2.bend a rod
3. crack a piston
4. all of the above creating the nuts and bolts sounds coming from your motor.

Oil being burned does contribute to the problem, the factory pcv system pulls oil vapor from the crankcase and sends it through the intake manifold, where it then gets burned in the combustion chamber. Problem is the 2.3 sees high crank case pressures and causes more oil vapor than desired to be pulled through the pcv system, leading to a build up of oil in the intake manifold, valves and combustion chamber where it can cause hot spots in the cylinder, which can preignite the a/f mix before the power stroke of the engine. This is where a catch can becomes important to keep as much oil as possible out of the cylinder.
 

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1. It can happen just as easily with an auto, I think the biggest reason it’s not occurring more with the auto is that most always drive in Sports mode which reacts quite a bit faster than Normal mode.

2. No, LSPI is too much fuel at too low of an rpm, that ignites before the desired Moment in time.
I knew there was a reason I always keep it in sport. ? D is so boring. I wanna hear those RPM's.
 

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There has been a lot of research that is pointing to the additives in motor oil contributing to the spontaneous ignition of the mixture with LSPI. The level of calcium in the motor oil seems to be the determining factor in the incidences of LSPI.

The new SN+ motor oils have been reformulated to reduce the incidences of LSPI.



Dave
 

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Dave not knocking your expertise as a engineer, but im speaking from first hand experience. Have you personally gone ecoboom from LSPI because I have, and it is very easy to miss any sounds or warning signs.
When i first got my 15 Ecoboost i had a brain fart and floored the car while in 6th at less than 2000 rpm. The engine immediately made the loudest knocking i have ever heard and the whole car shuddered, it was impossible to miss. I was lucky and did not blow the engine.

Granted you can fatigue the engine over time and have it fail while just cruising along but you would need many less sever LSPI events to have that happen.

Think about what is happening in the engine. You are at relatively low rpms, the boost is high and the piston is many degrees before TDC and a spontaneous ignition event occurs. The rapid increase in cylinder pressure is trying to push the piston backwards down the cylinder trying to turn the crank in the opposite direction of the momentum of the other cylinders. To think this could happen without hearing the rattling of the pistons in their cylinders due to the shock seems impossible to me.

The question i have for you is what analysis was performed on your blown engine that determined it was caused by LSPI?

Dave
 

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When i first got my 15 Ecoboost i had a brain fart and floored the car while in 6th at less than 2000 rpm. The engine immediately made the loudest knocking i have ever heard and the whole car shuddered, it was impossible to miss. I was lucky and did not blow the engine.

Granted you can fatigue the engine over time and have it fail while just cruising along but you would need many less sever LSPI events to have that happen.

Think about what is happening in the engine. You are at relatively low rpms, the boost is high and the piston is many degrees before TDC and a spontaneous ignition event occurs. The rapid increase in cylinder pressure is trying to push the piston backwards down the cylinder trying to turn the crank in the opposite direction of the momentum of the other cylinders. To think this could happen without hearing the rattling of the pistons in their cylinders due to the shock seems impossible to me.

The question i have for you is what analysis was performed on your blown engine that determined it was caused by LSPI?

Dave
I did a similar thing, when I bought the car i had no clue about turbo engines. Thought it would be a good idea to floor it in 6th gear at 60mph because I wanted to see what the car would do. Yes I know i was dumbass, as I was on the gas I heard one loud pop that sounded like an exhaust back fire and I let off, no knocking or ping before that or after. Got home and there was a nice puddle of coolant under my car, I put a crack in the block between cylinders 2 and 3 where the block is thinnest.

I was running a Cobb stage 1 tune, had no supporting mods, hadn't gone to 1 step colder plugs. Unfortunately I wasn't datalogging, so I can't say with 100% certainty, but after talking with a local eco tuner and my dealer we all came to the same conclusion that this is what happened, other possibility was cylinder pressure was insane at too low of rpms and caused the block to crack. Either way I created the perfect storm for that or LSPI and suffered the consequences.
 

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On the subject of oil getting into the combustion chambers; it's the oil causing a drastic drop in the octane value of the fuel that's the biggest factor here. Two-strokes typically only run around 6-7:1 ratio, primarily for that reason. You'd hope that the rings would have been fully seated by 3000 miles, but anything's possible.
I had my stock-tuned '18 rattle at me once when getting on the freeway in 3rd, turning over 3000rpm, and I just about soiled myself. That's when I went from running 87 to 91 octane, and haven't had a repeat performance since. I run Chevron like you noted, so I can only assume at this point that, like others have noted here, the damage was done earlier on, then let go later when you were driving.
Please keep us posted on how the dealer handles this, and good luck. We'll keep our fingers crossed...
 

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it's the oil causing a drastic drop in the octane value of the fuel that's the biggest factor here.
This is what I've come to gather from the various blurbs I've 'absorbed' on LSPI. Crappy oil and/or crappy gas combined with bad piston rings, or rings that haven't warmed up fully. Not saying lugging the engine couldn't exacerbate the issue...but the latest research shows oil/gas to be a leading indicator.
 
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