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I had no catch can for 5 year/40k miles because I was on the OEM tune.

When I got the ECU flashed I also installed a JLT 3.0 catch can because the increase in torque will increase blow-by and contaminate the air intake with sludge at a time when Octane is critical. Blow-by can lower the Octane rating causing detonation events that IMO can lead to the dreaded Ecoboom.

This is 2k miles worth of sluge so I'd recommend a catch can when ECU flashing at a minimum.

I also had the air/fuel induction cleaning at 40k miles to clean the carbon from the system prior to flashing and installing the catch can. After the service black soot came out of the tail pipes and fouled out my O2 sensors so there was apparently a good amount of carbon built up after 40k miles.

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Blowby will reduce your octane, by a minute amount, and most people spend such a small percentage of their driving time at max boost, that It just isn't much of a problem.
Most Ecobooms are caused by a bad tank of gas, on a pro tuned car, in conjunction with not monitoring the engine with an Accessport or by some other means.
Of course black soot came out of your exhaust. You sprayed a solvent down your intake, with the engine running. Where did you think it was going to go?You ran an induction system cleaner through your engine that not only cleaned your valves, but also your pistons and combustion chambers, and it wasn't the carbon that fouled your O2 sensors. It was the induction system cleaner. That's why you shouldn't use them on our engine and why Ford doesn't recommend them.
 

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Pure curiosity and I guess some peace of mind.
Your car, your money, your choice. You can easily inspect the piston tops and combustion chambers, with a borescope, by removing the sparkplugs, but to get a good look at the back side of the intake valves, you'll probably have to remove the intake manifold. It comes off pretty easily though.
 

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There is no doubt that you can get deposit build up on the back of the valves on the Ecoboost engine.
Even with a catch can, it will happen, but to a much lesser extent.... A catch will still not catch 100% of blow by.
How long it takes in terms of mileage before it causes performance issues is debatable and there are many factors involved.
Such as how the car is driven, what engine oil is used, whether it is tuned, etc.

Even the "climate" is which you drive your car has some bearing.
For example, in climatic conditions where you get a lot of condensation, it can make a difference, as the condensation itself (being water), has a cleaning effect when it passes through the intake to the valves.
So removing this condensation via a catch can (which most of what you collect in them is anyway), is not really beneficial to DI engines.

If carbon build up was not a problem in DI engines, then Ford would not have moved to Dual Port injection on the GT V8's from the 2018 models onwards.
For Ford to have also moved to Dual Port Injection on the 2.3 Ecoboost engine, would have been a tremendous re-engineering investment, which they did not see as profitable, with the move to EV engines just around the corner, and will likely be seen as a replacement for Ecoboost powered cars.
(On the other hand, Ford knows that is has to keep its V8 engines going as in its halo models, for as long as possible to attract the true Mustang performance enthusiasts, so the investment and inclusion of Dual Port Injection was worthwhile). :)
 

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Thanks. Do you have a link with specs that indicates the 2018 ecoboost is dual port (I found an article that discusses this for the GT?). Or see this discussion here: Add port injection to 2.3 ecoboost
I never said that Ford went with Dual Port Injection for the 2018 + models of the Ecoboost... Only the GT's. :)
 

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There is no doubt that you can get deposit build up on the back of the valves on the Ecoboost engine.
Even with a catch can, it will happen, but to a much lesser extent.... A catch will still not catch 100% of blow by.
How long it takes in terms of mileage before it causes performance issues is debatable and there are many factors involved.
Such as how the car is driven, what engine oil is used, whether it is tuned, etc.

Even the "climate" is which you drive your car has some bearing.
For example, in climatic conditions where you get a lot of condensation, it can make a difference, as the condensation itself (being water), has a cleaning effect when it passes through the intake to the valves.
So removing this condensation via a catch can (which most of what you collect in them is anyway), is not really beneficial to DI engines.

If carbon build up was not a problem in DI engines, then Ford would not have moved to Dual Port injection on the GT V8's from the 2018 models onwards.
For Ford to have also moved to Dual Port Injection on the 2.3 Ecoboost engine, would have been a tremendous re-engineering investment, which they did not see as profitable, with the move to EV engines just around the corner, and will likely be seen as a replacement for Ecoboost powered cars.
(On the other hand, Ford knows that is has to keep its V8 engines going as in its halo models, for as long as possible to attract the true Mustang performance enthusiasts, so the investment and inclusion of Dual Port Injection was worthwhile). :)
I never said carbon build up wasn't a problem on DI engines. I said it wasn't much of a problem on the 2.3 ecoboost engine. Yes, you'll end up with some carbon on your intake valves, but on this engine, rarely is it enough to cause any problems. Look around and see how many 2.3 ecoboosts you can find, without a catch can, that have had any symptoms from carbon buildup. I've talked to numerous owners, with over 100,000 miles and no catch can, and most of them were tuned. I found 1 car that had a cold drivability symptom. I've also searched numerous forums. It just hasn't been much of a problem, on this engine, but if it helps you sleep at night,
it's your car, your money, and your choice.
 

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I was watching a video about a non-ford 4cyl. turbo race car and the builder piped the suction/return line of the oil catch can into the exhaust, instead of venting it into the cold air intake or throttle body. I guess venting into the exhaust (down steam of sensors) creates enough of a vacuum to assist the crankcase pressure in the crankcase venting process.
Their reasoning was to prevent spark plug failure and the only problem they incurred was if the catch can became filled during competition, oil would spit out the exhaust and the car would be black flagged by race officials...
 

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Blowby will reduce your octane, by a minute amount, and most people spend such a small percentage of their driving time at max boost, that It just isn't much of a problem.
Most Ecobooms are caused by a bad tank of gas, on a pro tuned car, in conjunction with not monitoring the engine with an Accessport or by some other means.
Of course black soot came out of your exhaust. You sprayed a solvent down your intake, with the engine running. Where did you think it was going to go?You ran an induction system cleaner through your engine that not only cleaned your valves, but also your pistons and combustion chambers, and it wasn't the carbon that fouled your O2 sensors. It was the induction system cleaner. That's why you shouldn't use them on our engine and why Ford doesn't recommend them.
The Service was performed at a Ford dealership @40k miles and the soot and fouled O2 sensors occurred a couple of days after the service which is why I say the black soot fouled the O2 and not the service. It was all over my garage door and floor. The blow-by on some ECU tuned 2.3 engines is excessive as you can clearly see in the amount of captured sludge after only 2k miles, so saying it isn't likely a problem after seeing that much blow-by is a head scratcher. Excessive blow-by can be contributing factor on ECU tuned engines IMO, just like bad gas and when combined together may result in a detonation/ecoboom event. Just my opinion based on my own observations and we are all just speculating.

On the stock ECU the amount of blow-by decreases significantly (more than 50%) based on my own 600 mile experiment, but those results are for my engine only and may not be the same on other engines.
 

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The Service was performed at a Ford dealership @40k miles and the soot and fouled O2 sensors occurred a couple of days after the service which is why I say the black soot fouled the O2 and not the service. It was all over my garage door and floor. The blow-by on some ECU tuned 2.3 engines is excessive as you can clearly see in the amount of captured sludge after only 2k miles, so saying it isn't likely a problem after seeing that much blow-by is a head scratcher. Excessive blow-by can be contributing factor on ECU tuned engines IMO, just like bad gas and when combined together may result in a detonation/ecoboom event. Just my opinion based on my own observations and we are all just speculating.

On the stock ECU the amount of blow-by decreases significantly (more than 50%) based on my own 600 mile experiment, but those results are for my engine only and may not be the same on other engines.
I have a similar theory about blow-by and engine failure...I call it "liquid slugging"!??
If you would dump the liquid from your catch can into your air intake...your probably going to at least file your plugs and fill your cylinders with (said) liquid, plus fresh fuel from your injectors. Then repeat several thousand times and I don't know how you can't have problems!??
Just a theory! and NOT based on facts!
I do have a catch can on the Mustang I run in the National Mustang Racing Association. I do not have one on my personal Mustang or my 2.0 Ecoboost Fusion, both factory stock and driven lightly, very little WOT.
 

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I don't race and my car is mostly a daily driver for my wife. I do get into the boost when I drive though so I wanted to keep the oil from cooking onto the back side of the intake valves and gumming up the exhaust side of the turbo. I have the Mishimoto can on my car and I check it once every couple of months and never have had more than a 1/4 inch of oil in the bottom. I started putting some of my Wife's makeup removing little round pads in the bottom (they fit perfect) to keep slosh down and once the oil hits them, it stays put. Easy clean out with a paper towel and just toss the soaked pads and paper towels in a little plastic bag into the trash. 😁
I think I know what my next purchase is going to be LOL, some make up remover pads. Even with the catch can, I’m still getting lots of blow by in my manifold. Maybe these pads could help it stay put, as you stated and not be re routed back towards my intake manifold. I have the radium baffle plate, with 1/2 hose barb to 1/2 hose to my catch can, then I have 100psi UPR billet check valve before the manifold. For 50k kms my intake valves were kinda caked, to say the least. I’ve been trying to figure out how this is happening, but I can’t figure it out? Ugh 🤦‍♂️ so annoying lol, I just want to start tuning my car. I’m even getting a code p2282 I believe for air leak between intake valve and throttle body. I’ve checked everything and it has to be something to do with the catch can set up. I just can’t figure it out. I have just recently changed from the 50psi check valve to the 100psi one, hoping that would fix the issue, but didn’t.
 

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I think I know what my next purchase is going to be LOL, some make up remover pads. Even with the catch can, I’m still getting lots of blow by in my manifold. Maybe these pads could help it stay put, as you stated and not be re routed back towards my intake manifold. I have the radium baffle plate, with 1/2 hose barb to 1/2 hose to my catch can, then I have 100psi UPR billet check valve before the manifold. For 50k kms my intake valves were kinda caked, to say the least. I’ve been trying to figure out how this is happening, but I can’t figure it out? Ugh 🤦‍♂️ so annoying lol, I just want to start tuning my car. I’m even getting a code p2282 I believe for air leak between intake valve and throttle body. I’ve checked everything and it has to be something to do with the catch can set up. I just can’t figure it out. I have just recently changed from the 50psi check valve to the 100psi one, hoping that would fix the issue, but didn’t.
I think I know what my next purchase is going to be LOL, some make up remover pads. Even with the catch can, I’m still getting lots of blow by in my manifold. Maybe these pads could help it stay put, as you stated and not be re routed back towards my intake manifold. I have the radium baffle plate, with 1/2 hose barb to 1/2 hose to my catch can, then I have 100psi UPR billet check valve before the manifold. For 50k kms my intake valves were kinda caked, to say the least. I’ve been trying to figure out how this is happening, but I can’t figure it out? Ugh 🤦‍♂️ so annoying lol, I just want to start tuning my car. I’m even getting a code p2282 I believe for air leak between intake valve and throttle body. I’ve checked everything and it has to be something to do with the catch can set up. I just can’t figure it out. I have just recently changed from the 50psi check valve to the 100psi one, hoping that would fix the issue, but didn’t.
I've seen 4 cylinder turbo racers having the same problem as yours. They have increased the size of their catch can and also changed the location of the vent/vacuum line from the intake air system, to the exhaust air system.
I have relocated my throttle body vent over to my cold air intake (with future plans to tap it into my exhaust) and will be testing the system at the dragway later this week.
 

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I've had UPR DVCC on my 2016 since pretty much DAY ONE and if 5 years of driving car now has 101,500 miles on it and I've captured around 110~120 oz. of nasty liquid "FUNK".

It is a year round DD in Wisconsin and most of what it catches is condensation in the winter.

However it does catch about 1 oz. every 1500~2000 miles in the warmer months too.

As stated this is a DD that spends most of its life driving on the interstate and a good majority of that with cruise set at 80 MPH.

Is it really needed ?? I don't know.
Does it do anything ?? Well I think I answered that.

Doug
 
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I use to get around a shot glass of thin filmy looking oil colored liquid that smelled of gas about every 1k miles all depending on my driving and temps in my JLT. A couple of times there was some thick gritty looking sludge on the bottom of can. Somewhere on here i posted a pic of it. Overall will some condensation hurt? probably not. Oil? Over time probable on a GDI. Sludge absolutely.
 

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The Service was performed at a Ford dealership @40k miles and the soot and fouled O2 sensors occurred a couple of days after the service which is why I say the black soot fouled the O2 and not the service. It was all over my garage door and floor. The blow-by on some ECU tuned 2.3 engines is excessive as you can clearly see in the amount of captured sludge after only 2k miles, so saying it isn't likely a problem after seeing that much blow-by is a head scratcher. Excessive blow-by can be contributing factor on ECU tuned engines IMO, just like bad gas and when combined together may result in a detonation/ecoboom event. Just my opinion based on my own observations and we are all just speculating.

On the stock ECU the amount of blow-by decreases significantly (more than 50%) based on my own 600 mile experiment, but those results are for my engine only and may not be the same on other engines.
What symptom did your car have that you decided to do the induction system cleaning?
Your engine had carbon deposits on the valves, piston tops, and combustion chambers. This is normal and usually causes no problems. You had an induction system cleaning done, where a liquid solvent was run through your engine. The solvent and disolved carbon exited the exhaust valve and into the exhaust system. It took some time for this sooty black mess to work its way through your exhaust system and out the tailpipe. The O2 sensors never would have fouled, and you'd have never had a black sooty mess, if you hadn't run a cleaning solvent through your induction system.

Most of the 2.3 Ecoboost blowby issues are caused by replacing the stock downpipe, with an aftermarket downpipe, with or without a tune, or tuning to in excess of 25 lbs of boost.
Also, with any tune or downpipe, if you damage a piston or rings, you'll have blowby.
 

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I had no symptoms, I got the service done because I was going to flash the ECU and wanted to clean things up internally. I get this same service on our Hyundai's at 30k miles.

For the first 5 years and 40k miles the engine was bone stock. At 40k I started adding bolt on mods and ECU flash.

I understand what happened and why. I am simply relaying my experience.

My own experiment showed that in my engine, blow-by increases significantly when tuned. This is because of the increase in torque which is expected. Hence the reason I installed the catch can after tuning.

Others using the JLT catch can have reported similar results with excessive blow-by when tuned which leads me to believe that excessive blow-by after ECU flashing can be a contributing factor in the ecoboom since nearly all ecobooms are ECU flashed.
 
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If carbon build up was not a problem in DI engines, then Ford would not have moved to Dual Port injection on the GT V8's from the 2018 models onwards.
Not true. There are MANY good reasons to combine port injection with direct injection that have nothing whatsoever to do with keeping intake valves clean. You can read the technical details here:


Direct injection engines have been on the market for over a decade. The issues with valve contamination became apparent very early; Audi and VW engines were notorious for bad valve contamination. In short, auto manufacturers have been aware of this issue for a very long time. For its EcoBoost line, Ford made changes to fuel injection and valve timing such that the intake valve remains open for a time during the fuel injection cycle. This allows some of the fuel injected into the cylinder to make its way back into the intake port for detergent purposes. It also (I suspect) gives the fuel a bit more time for atomization, which contributes to cooling the air intake charge.

Something no one has mentioned: The 2.3L EcoBoost engine is equipped with an air/oil separator from the factory. Much of the sludge and other gunky looking stuff (it's an industry term) that people find in their catch cans would have been separated out by the factory air/oil separator and deposited back into the oil sump. The oil holds such contaminants in suspension until you change it--that's one of the primary reasons you change engine oil. As long as you adhere to the recommended change intervals, those contaminants do no harm to the engine.
 
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