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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So about maybe 3-4 weeks ago, I pull out of a gas station, get a little froggy with a full tank of gas, rev out some and listen to my exhaust, and CEL pops up. Sh!t. Ok, no problem. Pull back in home, hook up my OBD2 and read that crankcase ventilation Pressure P04DB is tripped. I'm like "Hmmmm....I guess maybe some PCV hose came loose or something". I am running the Ford Perf catchans on each PCV outlet. But to my chagrin, everything is snapped up from valve to can to recirculation point on each. Electrical connector is seated for the cleanside FP solution.

I clear the code. All is good.

Now, this is what I'll say about my engine. As of late.....I have been noticing that at cold idles, the tach rpm may dip down to like 500K for a brief second. Ive also been noticing 'misfire' count increments. It's like almost a given that my 'misfire' count will be ONE, by the time I connect to it via OBDFusion. I have not been able to correlate if those 'dip' in RPMs (which I have felt exactly 3 times in the past few months) are related to the 'misfiires'. The 'dips' aren't anything that chokes the car up. It's bat of an eye quick. Before I really have a chance to notice anything, its back at 700-800K. I definitely have not felt the dips anywhere near as often as I see the 'misfire' counts.

So, just pulled out right now after doing the coolant reservoir makeover, and CEL pops back up. Doh!

Pull back in, hook back up, and lo and behold....P04DB. "Permament"....OBDFusion says. It can't clear it out. I have to hookup Forscan to get it to clear out. Again, all catchcans are hooked up, AS FAR AS I CAN TELL.

I guess the easy solution is to put my OEM cleanside PCV hose back in, and see if the problem goes away. That's what I might do. I'm going to leave it there for one more round and see if it rears its head again. Im kind positive it will, but I'm going to adjust my datalogging to see if I can catch it.

I might take a look at my plugs in the meantime, but I don't think these have more than 10K or so on them. That's not bad, is it? You think a plug change might be in order?

Any thought or ideas are welcome.
 

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On my 15 i installed a clean side can and kept getting that code. Since it was catching anything anyway i took it out.

The Ford can came with a sensor in the line, i would have thought they would have made provisions fir the change in flow with the can.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Stratified Auto has a great write up on this. I'm telling you, its been like clockwork...even this morning. I had considered getting into my car first, electrically plugging in my OBD2 connector and go live BEFORE cranking engine on, but was such in a rush, that I did my usual 'remote crank and let warm up'. By the time I got into the car and hooked up m OBD2, the 'misfire' count was already at 3. And it never incremented past 3 on my entire drive to work.

So I was a little miffed and started googling "ford misfire at idle", and fond this.

Blog : Misfires and the Ecoboost, when should you worry? : Stratified Automotive Controls

upload_2019-10-29_10-8-49.png


So I'm thinking that the 'crankcase ventilation' issue, and the 'misfire counts' issue, are completely unrelated.

But I still need to do more logging in anticipation of the return of CEL P04DB. I was also thinking that I should disconnect the FP catchcan hoses and simply see if they might be blocked. I supposed I could always give FP support a call too...I mean, it is their part.

I'll keep this thread posted with what I find. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If it's a matter of too much pressure then this may help.

Valve Cover Breathers - CFM Performance


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Well..in order to 'try and catch it', I gotta understand what it is I'm looking for. I also have to make sure I am understanding the crankcase ventilation system properly, which is...I'm fairly sure: while the car is in vaccuum (car is ALWAYS in vaccuum when idling), the driverside outlet is used to recirculate back to throttle body.....and when there is enough boost pressure built up (presumably anything above zero), the valve on the driverside hose closes shut, thus forcing crankcase pressure through the passengerside outlet near the top of the engine. This recirculates back to the intake, in front of the turbo.

It really seemed to me, the 1st time I tripped the actual CEL, that I had just been 'revving out' my engine some. If that holds true, then its safe to assume that the car was under load and/or boost and pressure should have been ventilated through the passengerside. However, when I tripped the second time, I had literally JUST turned on my car, and could not have been at high rpm and/or boost. I was basically still driving down my street block. Probably going 25 mph, IF THAT. So that means the driverside outlet was probably being sampled for the 'trip'.

This is problematic to my issue, because now it might be something more than simply replacing the OEM factory PCV hose on the passengerside.

Here is a small, 4 minute sampling of my datalogged crankcase pressure overlapped with RPMS that I took this morning, after adding it as a monitored variable.

upload_2019-10-29_12-2-52.png


I guess what I'm trying to understand, BEFORE I just start putting the OEM PCV hoses back in, is what is the ECU looking at that causes this to trip? Is this an 'instantaneous code', or is this something that the ECU notices over a LONG period of time, and says....."Yeah, you need to take a look at this".
 

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These motors have a serious amount of blow by on a cold start because of the oversized ring gaps necessary for turbo motors.
Cars blowing out their timing cover seals and vvt solenoid seals is a symptom of an inadequate pcv system.

Next time you do a cold start in colder weather take the oil cap off and hold your hand over the hole and feel the pressure coming out.

The catch cans just filter the consumed gases they do not decrease pcv pressure so it seems reasonable that a relief vent would be beneficial.

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So.... Heres my .02 on this subject. It is my understanding that in a perfect situation the crank case is always in a vacuum state to keep the oil put. In a forced induction car, obviously there is some blow by form ring gap and boost pressure. As I understand the design, the drivers side provides vacuum at idle and the rush of air into the intake provides vacuum when under boost as it sucks air past the PCV line form the valve cover to the intake. All this being said, I do not feel that the factory PCV valve is sufficient for flow unless its gutted, this may explain the airflow out of the oil cap that Slojas was speaking about. Personally, my car blew the oil dipstick out under high boost and oil everywhere. After that I gutted the PCV, increased hose size to the dirty side catch can and installed the check valve. I will be replacing my factory air/oil separator plate completely with a Montune that has bigger baffles and an-10 fittings with even larger hoses. Currently I run nothing on the clean side as I see little - no oil or residue in my turbo, intake, or charge piping. There will always be crack pressure I think in the transition between vacuum and boost, especially since my ring gap was opened up from factory 12 thousandths to 24 thousandths for high boost expansion and future nitrous applications. More boost or nitrous means the ring expands more due to more heat, thus needing larger end gaps. If your considering race style driving often and high boost/power adders, I would suggest getting the "gap insurance" and be prepared to take care of the extra crank case pressures.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
So, this is becoming an iterative problem. That didn't take long at all. But I caught it, as I noticed the CEL come on.
IMG_0459.PNG


What I was weary of doing, was going into freezeframe WHILE I was driving the car. Can anyone confirm if this is safe? If it has NO BEARING on car operation? I know the Freeze frame values should ultimately tell me what exactly the car is seeing that is tripping the codes. I thought the app would have them saved as part of the DTC, but when I went back in, there was nothing there.

So I pulled the datalog, and it goes as follows (I did not choose these colors, datazap does)

The red dot is when I believe the CEL came on. Or, its when I noticed it.

Green: Crankcase pressure
Gray: RPM
Cyan: manifold pressure

Here is a long view:


upload_2019-10-31_11-34-25.png






Here is a bit more zoomed in:



upload_2019-10-31_11-33-20.png



I don't think this is telling me jack squat.


I did find this thread on this forum, where some people mentioned having the "airraid" (which I have had on now for like 6 months) and getting this code. They mention a possible poor fitting PCV connector on the aiiraid itself. I think I might triplecheck all these connections one more time. If I don't see anything obvious, I'm going to put the OEM cleanside hose back on.

https://www.mustangecoboost.net/threads/obd-code-p04db.1595/

I noticed @Elvis 66 had an issue with it, so I'll put out the bat signal for him, since I haven't heard from him in a while.

IF THAT STILL DOESN'T WORK, then I will put my OEM oil cap back on. I have also been driving around for like 8 months (even longer!) with an aftermarket oil cap. It seems to fit perfectly, but I do want to get to the bottom of this.

I can understand getting a lot of extra blowby if maybe you are running a bigger turbo, and more boost, but this really shouldn't be an issue for me in my stock turbo, and FP tune. So my last resort would be the CFM.

I have also seen threads on the F150 and Focus forums where, where they mention having the "double zero" on the end of the code having to do with the "voltage" necessary for the sensor. Not sure if it that means if air flow is not 'generating' enough voltage to be read, or if there might be something wrong with the connector as @dgc333 alluded to.

I will keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the input.
 

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So, this is becoming an iterative problem. That didn't take long at all. But I caught it, as I noticed the CEL come on.
View attachment 32741

What I was weary of doing, was going into freezeframe WHILE I was driving the car. Can anyone confirm if this is safe? If it has NO BEARING on car operation? I know the Freeze frame values should ultimately tell me what exactly the car is seeing that is tripping the codes. I thought the app would have them saved as part of the DTC, but when I went back in, there was nothing there.

So I pulled the datalog, and it goes as follows (I did not choose these colors, datazap does)

The red dot is when I believe the CEL came on. Or, its when I noticed it.

Green: Crankcase pressure
Gray: RPM
Cyan: manifold pressure

Here is a long view:


View attachment 32739





Here is a bit more zoomed in:



View attachment 32737


I don't think this is telling me jack squat.


I did find this thread on this forum, where some people mentioned having the "airraid" (which I have had on now for like 6 months) and getting this code. They mention a possible poor fitting PCV connector on the aiiraid itself. I think I might triplecheck all these connections one more time. If I don't see anything obvious, I'm going to put the OEM cleanside hose back on.

https://www.mustangecoboost.net/threads/obd-code-p04db.1595/

I noticed @Elvis 66 had an issue with it, so I'll put out the bat signal for him, since I haven't heard from him in a while.

IF THAT STILL DOESN'T WORK, then I will put my OEM oil cap back on. I have also been driving around for like 8 months (even longer!) with an aftermarket oil cap. It seems to fit perfectly, but I do want to get to the bottom of this.

I can understand getting a lot of extra blowby if maybe you are running a bigger turbo, and more boost, but this really shouldn't be an issue for me in my stock turbo, and FP tune. So my last resort would be the CFM.

I have also seen threads on the F150 and Focus forums where, where they mention having the "double zero" on the end of the code having to do with the "voltage" necessary for the sensor. Not sure if it that means if air flow is not 'generating' enough voltage to be read, or if there might be something wrong with the connector as @dgc333 alluded to.

I will keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the input.
Sounds like your setup is different than mine and I agree that with what your running you shouldn’t be having these problems. That aside it seems like your on the tight track, keep us all informed as to what you find out. This could be my next CEL.
 

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So, this is becoming an iterative problem. That didn't take long at all. But I caught it, as I noticed the CEL come on.
View attachment 32741

What I was weary of doing, was going into freezeframe WHILE I was driving the car. Can anyone confirm if this is safe? If it has NO BEARING on car operation? I know the Freeze frame values should ultimately tell me what exactly the car is seeing that is tripping the codes. I thought the app would have them saved as part of the DTC, but when I went back in, there was nothing there.

So I pulled the datalog, and it goes as follows (I did not choose these colors, datazap does)

The red dot is when I believe the CEL came on. Or, its when I noticed it.

Green: Crankcase pressure
Gray: RPM
Cyan: manifold pressure

Here is a long view:


View attachment 32739





Here is a bit more zoomed in:



View attachment 32737


I don't think this is telling me jack squat.


I did find this thread on this forum, where some people mentioned having the "airraid" (which I have had on now for like 6 months) and getting this code. They mention a possible poor fitting PCV connector on the aiiraid itself. I think I might triplecheck all these connections one more time. If I don't see anything obvious, I'm going to put the OEM cleanside hose back on.

https://www.mustangecoboost.net/threads/obd-code-p04db.1595/

I noticed @Elvis 66 had an issue with it, so I'll put out the bat signal for him, since I haven't heard from him in a while.

IF THAT STILL DOESN'T WORK, then I will put my OEM oil cap back on. I have also been driving around for like 8 months (even longer!) with an aftermarket oil cap. It seems to fit perfectly, but I do want to get to the bottom of this.

I can understand getting a lot of extra blowby if maybe you are running a bigger turbo, and more boost, but this really shouldn't be an issue for me in my stock turbo, and FP tune. So my last resort would be the CFM.

I have also seen threads on the F150 and Focus forums where, where they mention having the "double zero" on the end of the code having to do with the "voltage" necessary for the sensor. Not sure if it that means if air flow is not 'generating' enough voltage to be read, or if there might be something wrong with the connector as @dgc333 alluded to.

I will keep you guys posted. Thanks for all the input.
Yeah the air raid tube was the problem where I had my catch can hooked up to it the quick disconnect got a little bit loose from the blow bye cleaned it up put it back together everything was fine.hope you been doing well brother?
 

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I've had the same code come on and off for the past 2 years that my UPR DVCC has been on the car, my PCV is also gutted, im running a raduim engineering pcv plate and a crank case breather oil cap. I'm at 88k miles now and have been full bolt and tuned for 60k of those miles with no issues yet. My catch can is doing its job, and like you i have no oily residue in the clean side. I believe this code is just a reaction the crank case pressure changing with the catch can/gutted pcv, and the computer is seeing the cahnge outside its set parameters. Its something ive thought about asking Ryan to turn off for me but i just haven't done it.

In my opinion as long as everything is hooked up correctly then your car will be fine. The catch can will do its job and the PCV system "FLOW" is just going to be higher than stock with the restricted PCV valve.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I got up early this morning and triplechecked the cleanside catchcan connections, pulled everything completely off, blew in them to make sure there was no blockage and determined that the connector on the AirRaid was fine. I ran some Qtips in there to see if anything was blocking it there, and nothing. I then went ahead and placed the OEM cleanside hose back on, and reset the DTC.

If it comes back, my next step will be replacing my aftermarket oil cap.
 

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I got up early this morning and triplechecked the cleanside catchcan connections, pulled everything completely off, blew in them to make sure there was no blockage and determined that the connector on the AirRaid was fine. I ran some Qtips in there to see if anything was blocking it there, and nothing. I then went ahead and placed the OEM cleanside hose back on, and reset the DTC.

If it comes back, my next step will be replacing my aftermarket oil cap.
I don't think the oil cap is the problem, venting out that pressure is only a good thing. If its blowing some oil out of the breather cap, UPR just came out with this...

UPR Crankcase Breather Catch Can for 2015+ Ford Ecoboost Mustang
 

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Discussion Starter #16
So its been a little over a week since my last Crankcase Ventilation Code, in which I changed back my cleanside OEM hose back for the FP catchcan solution I had put on many, many moons ago....and its been no return of the code again since. it's only been a week, so I'm still being vigilant over it, but its quite possible that was the issue.

I also wanted to clarify about the whole misfire count thing, which I think I figured out.

So a couple of months ago, I upgraded from Sync1 to Sync3. The Sync3 "Premium" system comes with "Climate Control". As part of the installation kit that Hextall provided me, the Forscan registry codes he gave me, specifically enabled the Climate Control feature to turn on and start blowing cold AC from remote start (which I did not have before).

That is the issue.

As noted earlier in the post, from the stratified blog-->the Eco will increment the 'misfire count', ANY TIME, the teeth on the crank sensor don't sense an acceleration of the crank in the manner it was expecting it to. It doesn't necessarily mean a complete 'misfire' of the plug, but simply that the the torque from the detonation wasn't as clean as it would have liked.

Basically, the 'misfire counts' are me remote starting my car every morning (which I do) with the AC turned on. This extra energy needed to get these going straight from crank is what causes the 'misfire counts' to increment 1 or 2, right after I crank on, so that is what I read by the time I get into the car and connect my device.

I have tested a few times now, connecting my device first, and then "normally" starting my car using the button (so that the AC doesn't automatically turn on), and I have noticed that 'misfire counts' stay at zero.

There you go. Learned a little something on 'misfire' from this whole fiasco. :cool:
 

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Hey I am getting the same code....so the solution was for you to get rid of your catch can and put the OEM PCV hose back on?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hey I am getting the same code....so the solution was for you to get rid of your catch can and put the OEM PCV hose back on?
Yes. But only on the "clean side". I was running a dual catchcan setup, from Ford Performance. I had one for the "clean side" and one for the "dirty side". The "clean side" seemed to be the problem. The "dirty side" has been AOK since I've put it in. I removed the "clean side" and put the OEM hose back on, since it really wasn't 'catching' ANYTHING, anyway. Code never returned.
 

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Mine threw the same code after going from a dirty side catch can to the dual valve with gutted PCV valve...I will say once the catch can gets some oil/ moisture in it , it doesn’t throw the code randomly. The code is more of annoyance then anything else.
 
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