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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So as of now I've come a relatively long way with my build, but I feel like everyone runs into this issue. I want more power. Right now I'm running JLT cold air intake, Mishimoto intercooler, Turbosmart blow off valve, MBRP cat back, CVF catless downpipe, JLT oil separator and about a month ago I got it dyno tuned on 93 pushing around 340-350 wheel and about 420 torque. My main question right now is what to do next or should I do anything more. Obviously I'm a bit scared of blowing the motor. I was thinking charge pipes but I'm not sure if they will really help with gains. Big turbo is always an option but it seems like once you hit that 400whp mark the motor is at a high risk. I assume I'm missing something but the only other thing I can think of is either a water meth injection or ethanol blend. Any suggestions? I've got a 2019 with the 10 speed auto and about 20k miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You're already pushing more HP than is recommended for a 93 octane tune. What do you have for monitoring hardware? Who's your tuner? Make sure you monitor your AFR, knock count, and fuel quality religiously.
As of now I just use the Cobb access port for monitoring. I have all of those on screen at all times and no issues yet after about a month even when pushing the car. I got it tuned by Origin Tuning here in Florida.
 

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You're about as far as you can go if you value longevity of the engine. I have similar bolt ons as you and a Custom 93 tune. I told the tuner that I wanted the best balance of power and safety to the engine as he could give me, with safety the overriding concern. Basically make sure I can't blow it up. That resulted in dyno numbers of 334.3 horsepower and 414.6 torque. He stated, there's a lot more power in there, but not if safety is your goal. I'm very happy with what he's done. It's a completely different car and I'm going to keep it just the way it is. I don't think it's worth it to push for more power. More power would better come from a GT and would be cheaper than all the mods to the ecoboost that now needs a new engine, because I pushed it to far and blew the engine. That's my take anyway. Opinions do, of course, vary.
Have fun and enjoy your car.
 

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So as of now I've come a relatively long way with my build, but I feel like everyone runs into this issue. I want more power. Right now I'm running JLT cold air intake, Mishimoto intercooler, Turbosmart blow off valve, MBRP cat back, CVF catless downpipe, JLT oil separator and about a month ago I got it dyno tuned on 93 pushing around 340-350 wheel and about 420 torque. My main question right now is what to do next or should I do anything more. Obviously I'm a bit scared of blowing the motor. I was thinking charge pipes but I'm not sure if they will really help with gains. Big turbo is always an option but it seems like once you hit that 400whp mark the motor is at a high risk. I assume I'm missing something but the only other thing I can think of is either a water meth injection or ethanol blend. Any suggestions? I've got a 2019 with the 10 speed auto and about 20k miles.
Both our Mustangs have similar modifications.
What are your charge temperatures at wide open throttle? Mine are high.
An attempt to lower my charge temperatures, I've started mixing my own fuel, gasoline and ethanol, and have made progress in both power and charge temperatures, but only minor progress.
My next steps, are to research adding a water to air intercooler "or" a Meth/Water system.
 

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I have not had my Mustang on a dyno. I do take it to the track and am pleased with performance. But feel the need to lower the charge temperatures to protect the motor.
40738
 

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Both our Mustangs have similar modifications.
What are your charge temperatures at wide open throttle? Mine are high.
An attempt to lower my charge temperatures, I've started mixing my own fuel, gasoline and ethanol, and have made progress in both power and charge temperatures, but only minor progress.
My next steps, are to research adding a water to air intercooler "or" a Meth/Water system.
I read your comments and it raised a lot of questions that made me think about all the things that the tuner/performance shop guy told me.

I guess first is, how high are your charge temps? Actual and degrees over ambient? Are they high after lapping a track at sustained high boost levels or are they high after just one 1/4 mile run?

What type of intercooler do you have? I'm not putting down anyone's car, just passing along what the shop told me. For example, they would not put on the popular mishimoto, but instead use ETS, saying that there is a hug difference in cooling and longevity as well. Did you put on charge pipes? Tuner indicated to me that intercooler is way less efficient without rigid charge pipes.

My charge temps stay at ambient, after multi pulls, but I have not tracked it so would not know there. Before adding all the parts, I could not get two pulls without the engine cutting power, I could feel it, but was not measuring. I do have logs though, post mods, with pulls run one after another with no increase in charge temps.

That's all I can think of other than something being out of whack with your tune maybe? I'm running Custom 93 tune. I'm trying to learn here as much as anything. Thanks for the insights!
 

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Same here! I'm all about sharing information!!

I run a $100 eBay intercooler which has almost twice the thermal mass as the OEM intercooler. And am still running with OEM charge pipes. I have added air dams and am mixing my fuel with ethanol.

I run 1/4 laps at WOT, and below are ball park temperatures at the 1320' Mark.

With an 80* IAT, I'll get a temperature of about 240* after my turbocharger/before my intercooler and around 120* after my intercooler. This gives me an approx. charge temperatures of 125* (20* cooler then before adding air dams and ethanol).
 

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Same here! I'm all about sharing information!!

I run a $100 eBay intercooler which has almost twice the thermal mass as the OEM intercooler. And am still running with OEM charge pipes. I have added air dams and am mixing my fuel with ethanol.

I run 1/4 laps at WOT, and below are ball park temperatures at the 1320' Mark.

With an 80* IAT, I'll get a temperature of about 240* after my turbocharger/before my intercooler and around 120* after my intercooler. This gives me an approx. charge temperatures of 125* (20* cooler then before adding air dams and ethanol).
I think that if you upgraded your intercooler and charge piping, your problem would be solved. Yes, there is significant cost. The IC and piping is about $1,200 for the ETS brand I have BUT I have run it hard on multi pulls, and at other times, have run it hard up and down through the gears over a 20 minute period of constant on/off the pedal from 0 to WOT and not had a charge temp above ambient. Below is what I have, plus a blowoff valve adapter etc. I think it would solve your problem based upon my own experience with my car's setup as well as the advice of the tuner/shop i used. That guy is like an encyclopedia. He stated that it was once thought, that exhaust upgrades, down pipe etc were critical, but testing over time proved that to be not true at all, it's exactly backwards. YES, a downpipe adds power, but it's not the major limiting factor and with the stock turbo, the stock exhaust has plenty of flow as is. What was found is that heat is the issue, charge temps specifically, so the focus was put on the intercooler and that's what he pushes since testing proves it is the bottleneck.
I pulled a couple logs and this one gives as good a representation as any. It was hot as hell out, high humidity, exact temp I don't exactly know as the log doesn't have it......but you'll get the idea on what a quality intercooler can do. At no throttle charge air is running 105 degrees up to 108 degrees after 20 seconds of idle time. After 8 seconds of driving at ~20 to 25% throttle, charge air temp down to 96. More idle time of 6 seconds and charge air up to 99. Start WOT run for 10 seconds charge air drops to 90.6 and ends at 91.8.

Another log with multi pulls shows charge air at 85.8.1 at beginning of 10 second WOT run with charge air temp dropping to 77.7 at lowest and ending at 82.6. 15 seconds later after coast down and light throttle charge temps at 83.9 and another WOT run for 8.5 seconds and charge temps dropped to 82.1 and finished the run at 81.9. Still same run 15 seconds later after coast down and light throttle charge temps at 84.6 and go WOT for 8 seconds and charge temps drop to 80.1 and end at 81.2. HOPEFULLY, this adds some insight, or possible I'm just babbling :)

ETS Mustang EcoBoost Intercooler Kit (extremeturbosystems.com)
 

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Wow! Thanks for all the insight and information!!
40739

I've decided to cut my racing season short and started to dismantle my car. I've already purchased the material to rebuild the air intake and charge pipes. Have been looking at water to air intercoolers, but haven't ordered it yet. I'll take a look at the one your using! Probably will add a Meth kit and /or E30 tune before I head to Florida for for testing next February.
 

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Concerning exhaust. My Mustang run better with a little back pressure. I get a lower ET and higher MPH with a 200 cell catalytic converter. I can't back that up with a dyno report, but I do have my time slips and logs.
40741

(I also need to add drive shaft loops before next spring)
 

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Wow! Thanks for all the insight and information!! View attachment 40739
I've decided to cut my racing season short and started to dismantle my car. I've already purchased the material to rebuild the air intake and charge pipes. Have been looking at water to air intercoolers, but haven't ordered it yet. I'll take a look at the one your using! Probably will add a Meth kit and /or E30 tune before I head to Florida for for testing next February.
The water to air is the way to go for what you are doing.The idle times with no airflow start you off in the hole already, particularly in back to back runs. There is no way around that with air to air. The data
I provided on normal runs shows that - the one run starts at 108 and ends at 91.8 and that was just some idle time, not hard runs and then sitting with the hood down and heat soaking, before more idle time. I've parked it after a 20 to 30 minute run with lots of WOT and 30 mins later had IAT of 185, and although I did not check, I'm sure charge temps would obviously be WAY up there. Considering ECU starts pulling timing at 100, from my understanding anyway, air to air it's just not the setup that is workable for drag racing. It's likely fine for road course, assuming a big enough intercooler etc, because you always have air flow. for what you are doing, fill that tank full of ice and water, hit the fan switch and off you go!
 

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Concerning exhaust. My Mustang run better with a little back pressure. I get a lower ET and higher MPH with a 200 cell catalytic converter. I can't back that up with a dyno report, but I do have my time slips and logs. View attachment 40741
(I also need to add drive shaft loops before next spring)
I definitely believe you. My tuner guy has said the same thing about a little back pressure being good. I don't remember what he said, but I think it's because the turbo will spool up faster. I'm catless, and that's due to his choice as it was cheaper and I live in a no inspection state so it's not a big issue so he just did it that way. Once I figured out that he really knows his stuff and works to do the best for his customers I just let him do his thing :)
 

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I spoke to a tuner, with a Dyno, before I bought my intercooler. For stock mount intercoolers,
He liked CPE the best. He had a low opinion of the Mishimoto. For large intercoolers, he liked CPE, ETS, Full Race, and Speed Factory. I spoke to him before CVF came out with theirs.
People always seem to like the quality of the CVF intercoolers, but I've never seen any independent objective testing of them.
Numerous people have run mid to high 11 second 1/4 mile times using these
recommended air to air intercoolers, in conjunction with FBO mods and an E-30 tune,
on the stock turbo.
 

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So as of now I've come a relatively long way with my build, but I feel like everyone runs into this issue. I want more power. Right now I'm running JLT cold air intake, Mishimoto intercooler, Turbosmart blow off valve, MBRP cat back, CVF catless downpipe, JLT oil separator and about a month ago I got it dyno tuned on 93 pushing around 340-350 wheel and about 420 torque. My main question right now is what to do next or should I do anything more. Obviously I'm a bit scared of blowing the motor. I was thinking charge pipes but I'm not sure if they will really help with gains. Big turbo is always an option but it seems like once you hit that 400whp mark the motor is at a high risk. I assume I'm missing something but the only other thing I can think of is either a water meth injection or ethanol blend. Any suggestions? I've got a 2019 with the 10 speed auto and about 20k miles.
So as of now I've come a relatively long way with my build, but I feel like everyone runs into this issue. I want more power. Right now I'm running JLT cold air intake, Mishimoto intercooler, Turbosmart blow off valve, MBRP cat back, CVF catless downpipe, JLT oil separator and about a month ago I got it dyno tuned on 93 pushing around 340-350 wheel and about 420 torque. My main question right now is what to do next or should I do anything more. Obviously I'm a bit scared of blowing the motor. I was thinking charge pipes but I'm not sure if they will really help with gains. Big turbo is always an option but it seems like once you hit that 400whp mark the motor is at a high risk. I assume I'm missing something but the only other thing I can think of is either a water meth injection or ethanol blend. Any suggestions? I've got a 2019 with the 10 speed auto and about 20k miles.
I HAVE A 2019 ECOBOOST WHICH DYNO AT 350HP PLUS THE TURBO. HAVE HAD HER UP TO 140MPH WHICH IS FAST ENOUGH
 

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So as of now I've come a relatively long way with my build, but I feel like everyone runs into this issue. I want more power. Right now I'm running JLT cold air intake, Mishimoto intercooler, Turbosmart blow off valve, MBRP cat back, CVF catless downpipe, JLT oil separator and about a month ago I got it dyno tuned on 93 pushing around 340-350 wheel and about 420 torque. My main question right now is what to do next or should I do anything more. Obviously I'm a bit scared of blowing the motor. I was thinking charge pipes but I'm not sure if they will really help with gains. Big turbo is always an option but it seems like once you hit that 400whp mark the motor is at a high risk. I assume I'm missing something but the only other thing I can think of is either a water meth injection or ethanol blend. Any suggestions? I've got a 2019 with the 10 speed auto and about 20k miles.
I've been following your thread and have read some good information and gotten some good advice!!
I purchased a new air to air intercooler from Jessie Ringling of EMS (engineering motorsports solutions). I also ordered an E85 Auxiliary Fuel Kit, also from EMS!
After getting a E85 Pro-Tune from Ryan at PD, I should be pushing around 400 WHP!!
Thanks for starting this thread!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I've been following your thread and have read some good information and gotten some good advice!!
I purchased a new air to air intercooler from Jessie Ringling of EMS (engineering motorsports solutions). I also ordered an E85 Auxiliary Fuel Kit, also from EMS!
After getting a E85 Pro-Tune from Ryan at PD, I should be pushing around 400 WHP!!
Thanks for starting this thread!
No problem! I’m glad it’s helping people out. Let me know how the e85 goes for you because that’s what I am thinking about doing next.
 

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I've been following your thread and have read some good information and gotten some good advice!!
I purchased a new air to air intercooler from Jessie Ringling of EMS (engineering motorsports solutions). I also ordered an E85 Auxiliary Fuel Kit, also from EMS!
After getting a E85 Pro-Tune from Ryan at PD, I should be pushing around 400 WHP!!
Thanks for starting this thread!
Which intercooler did you buy?
 
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