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This had been a truly enlightening discussion. I hope you all have an enjoyable day. Peace.

 

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I'm not an expert for sure, but I would go a step further in caution and say that 350 whp is the upper limit of safe. I base this from what I learned from the tuner I hired. He put on an intercooler, charge pipes, catch can, bov, waste gate and custom 93 tune with the goal of meeting my request to balance safety and longevity of the engine with the max power. I now have 334 whp and 415 torque to the wheels. He stated - "There's a lot more power in there, but not if safety is your main goal".

Honestly, to me it now has a huge increase in power on tap that no longer falls flat but just keeps pulling, to the point that I really don't think it needs more or feels like more would be safe. Again, this is just my opinion, but if I want more power then I think a GT would be the way to go because to me at the power levels I'm at now, feels like the engine is getting pushed hard enough. I've driven it hard to very hard with no issues, street and highway, no track, but multiple hard pulls in a row, 3 to 6 1/4 mile and 0 to 60 runs mixed together, and have been out on many occasions with 20 to 30 minutes of running it up and down through the gears at WOT much of the time, with no issues. Again, this is just opinion based upon feelings, lol, and I hate that feelings crap, but in this case I'm going with it. The seat of the pants feel that I get says that it's putting out all the power it can and more would be asking for trouble. Now, on a 50 mph roll when I go WOT I'm passing 110 where before I would be passing 80, and I know it still is pulling hard at 145 so I really don't need any more power. Would a GT pull harder and accelerate faster? I'm sure it would but I don't think it would make any sense in trying to turn my ecoboost into a GT.

Good luck and have fun!

 

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You took the words right out of my mouth. A big example of this is Ford only tuning the HPP to 330hp when they tuned the Focus RS to 350. The focus is in its own class so didn't really matter. Ford does not want the 2.3 numbers getting to close to the GT and hurt those sales along with everything else you said.

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Steve - there is a point here about definitions in that what you are quoting is crank horsepower, not wheel. The manufacturers like to use crank horsepower as it is the larger number and of course sounds better. The agreed upon number to calculate with is a 15% driveline loss. I will caution you however, that this is just the agreed upon number by people with actual real knowledge in the industry, BUT I do not have a triple certified, double rubber stamped engineering certification to back it up with so it won't stand up under cross examination . In any case, the 330 HPP you site only makes 280.5 Wheel Horsepower, the standard ecoboost makes about 265. So to jump past a bunch of cross examination, and make more unverifiable, uncertified, non-engineer approved statements - NO, the engine will not reliably make 400 WHP, it will make 400 Crank horsepower reliably as again, most with real world knowledge of the subject agree that the engine will make 350 Wheel Horsepower which equates to 411.76 crank horsepower but that is the upper limit. Mine makes 334 WHP or 393 Crank after FBO and a tune where I requested that power with long life and safety were the goals.To that, the tuner replied - "I gave you what you wanted. There is a lot more power in there, but not that can be extracted at a safe level." The guy tunes cars for race teams to consumers and knows the platform and he thinks that 350 WHP is the upper limit. So, for whatever it's worth, that's what I've learned so far from people in the industry.

Hope everyone has a great day! I have to get out of here so I can get in a quick drive before college football starts!

 

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What is this claim based on? There is only a single auto manufacturer worldwide selling a production car with a 400 hp 4cyl--this engineering feat is not easy or inexpensive. How do you define "safety limit" and how do you know it's 420 whp for the 2.3L EcoBoost? Do you have engineering data on this, or is it based on marketing materials from people selling power upgrades?

I have to ask. Are you trying out for the new Perry Mason movie or are you a GT owner with their panties in a bunch?

These are common power numbers backed up by dyno results by multiple tuners across the country. Seriously, maybe do some research before you come off like you are cross examining someone or just outright calling them a liar. There really isn't any call for it. Have a great afternoon and a better weekend.

 

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If you want the hard numbers so bad, why don't you go to the ProTuners themselves? They are the ones with all the data, not the people getting the tune.

He just wants to play Perry Mason, and that's ok, because he's good enough, and smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like him!

Strangely, Nebraska is hanging with Oklahoma!

Your opinion just like mine and others. But consider this. Fords 5.0 gen3 Coyote is rated to 800+hp completely stock minus some forced induction(ford performance own mouth multiple youtube vids they state this even one with American muscle google it) why would Ford not push the engine to that limit from the factory since it can handle it?🤔

What would be crazy is for ford to design an engine that can only handle the factory rated power. Every manufacturer not just auto manufacturers give a large overhead then lowers rated expectancy so its less likely to fail thus less warranty repairs. And if you go beyond rated then its on you. Ford will not release info on the 4cyl limits to not compete with GT. They release GT because Roush and Saleen push to that rated limit and maintains warranty otherwise they wouldn't warranty Roush and Saleen would cut ties. (Let alone Shelby pushing their power on .2 littre more.)


Google is your friend i have read multiple discussions from multiple performance shops on the subject if i found them you can.

Outstanding!

Like others have pointed out, you can speak with the tuners, there is enough of them that it's not difficult to sort out the clowns from the professionals and they will tell you. They have real world data and they work with people like Cobb and others that have the engineering data on the theoretical limits and the tuners in the field prove or disprove the validity of that data and come to more refined conclusions every day.

Cobb and the rest are not going to publish all the data that they spent 100's of thousands to millions of dollars of their own money on via test mules, programming time and analysis equipment, test equipment and dynos, shops, equipment, mechanics, fabricators and on and on so others can have it for free. Anyone with any sense knows that. They are however going to share it with the tuners like mine, who pay them fees to be a Cobb certified tuner. The tuners receive ongoing education and consultations from Cobb. These tuners pay good money for that knowledge. Cobb also receives real world test data and feedback from the tuners which is invaluable to them.

So when any reasonable person with any sort of judgement whatsoever looks into it, that person can tell what the platform will produce within a reasonable certainty. My tuner states that properly equipped, it will produce the 334 WHP it produces safely and I can accept that as being true because he's a professional and it's in his best interests not to blow up cars. Beyond that I can trust in him because:

1) He runs a shop servicing professional race teams and he readily discloses to the average person like me that priority is given to the race teams and that there likely will always be a wait for people like me to get scheduled. He's honest and upfront.

2) Given the realm of professional race teams, he knows the various limits of various platforms at various power levels to the point he can tell you that I can get 500 WHP out of your car, if you want to switch to a built block and redo basically everything in the engine. It likely won't last more than X number of races or X street miles without being completely torn down................... all the way down to mine at 334 WHP that he states will run a normal life with little risk. Does he guarantee that? Of course not, he didn't build the thing from scratch nor charge a fee anywhere near high enough to cover that type of guarantee. There are a percentage of new engines, of new turbos, or new mechanical anythings that fail as a regular course.

3) I have reasonable cause to believe what he's telling me is true due to all of the above things and due to the simple fact that if it weren't true, he would not have a wait to get in his shop of weeks to months. Word would get around fast to not take your car there because he blows up engines. He would not tell people things that cost him more income like - "you don't need an aftermarket exhaust. Others will try to sell you one so that they can make money, but the stock exhaust has plenty of flow for the stock turbo at any reasonable power level you would be pushing through it. You do need a downpipe, but not an exhaust." People that are out for a quick buck and/or who don't know what they are doing will sell you anything including lies that a platform can reliably produce 400 WHP when in his well educated opinion it will not. That's precisely why I went there. I trust the mans experience and judgement. His real world experience is all I need. He takes all the engineering studies and tests and proves them to be true or false in the real world in real cars driven in real races and on real streets everyday. I would venture to say that his opinion is worth more than any study or lab report ever produced. That makes it good enough for me and apparently most other people that wait weeks to months to get in his shop. The only guarantee in life is that at birth, at your fist breath, you started your journey towards death and you will die. That's it and yet with the complete certainty of that, not a single person on the planet can tell you how long that's going to take or produce an study either to back it up either.......

Blah blah blah...the truth is out there. Some people just want to argue and are never happy. It's their life.